The Hugo of streaming?

charlesphoto posted:

Oops, somehow I misread. But from the accounts I've read, the 1.4 upgrade gets one 90% to the Ultra.   ...

 

I don't have an Ultra to compare but I wouldn't hesitate recommending the 1.4 board as a good value upgrade for the microRendu, and applaud Sonore for making it available. I have had mine for a few weeks now.

From the off I perceived an overall increase in clarity and resolution, which first struck me most in the rendering of bass and kick drum, where individual notes are much better resolved and easier to follow, and in some instances perceptible for the 1st time, but it is also apparent throughout the frequency spectrum.  I have also noticed that sibilant recordings that previously grated and seemed to overly draw attention to themselves are much easier on the ear and much less intrusive . This is all good - the classic 'veil' lifted. If there are 6 more to go I will be very happy indeed.

It would be fantastic if Sonore continue to upgrade their products in this fashion as and when new, superior components become available and economical. 

I am powering my microRendu with an LPS-1, which in turn is powered by the supplied Meanwell PS. 

Both mR and LPS-1 do 'thin' out the sound  a bit compared to NAIM DAC-V1 direct USB  for instance. But for me the increase in resolution (low level decay & sound stage clarity offsets this loss).

I would also encourage one to try an LPS in place of the Meanwell or iFi  powering the LPS-1 ( 2 amps  in the 7.5-9 VDC range, with adequate  heat sinking).

charlesphoto posted:

Thanks for the feedback on the 1.4 board upgrade. Planning on doing this myself soon - it sounds like the biggest bang for the buck as far as upgrading goes. Would love to get an Uptone USB hard adapter but no idea how I can hang the mR off the back of the V1 without moving it further from the wall and building some kind of Rube Goldberg contraption to keep it from sagging. Using Ghent audio cables - great value and now making all kinds of DC power cable iterations as well as ethernet and USB. 

Tell us (well me at least) more about the Ghent cables you use, where and what they replaced, please. 

.sjb

Brilliant posted:

............

I would also encourage one to try an LPS in place of the Meanwell or iFi  powering the LPS-1 ( 2 amps  in the 7.5-9 VDC range, with adequate  heat sinking).

Oh dear - I was hoping to avoid the PS to power the PS slippery slope but I will no doubt succumb. I have a surplus TP 5V/3A PS which used to power a SB Touch but appears to be unsuitable for LPS-1 duties. It looks like the TeraDak units are favoured here, so will investigate. Thanks

SamS posted:

Brilliant posted:

............

I would also encourage one to try an LPS in place of the Meanwell or iFi  powering the LPS-1 ( 2 amps  in the 7.5-9 VDC range, with adequate  heat sinking).

Oh dear - I was hoping to avoid the PS to power the PS slippery slope but I will no doubt succumb. I have a surplus TP 5V/3A PS which used to power a SB Touch but appears to be unsuitable for LPS-1 duties. It looks like the TeraDak units are favoured here, so will investigate. Thanks

Oh dear - apologies!

BTW the TP 5/3 can be turned into the TP 7/2 with a single resistor change if you are comfy  soldering a surface mount device or know someone who is. Teddy is helpful if contacted. Personally I found the TP powering the LPS-1 to miss the 'grunt' that Mr Underhill refers to above but otherwise excellent (very polished). It  might be much cheaper to use one of the far east offerings. Many can not meet the specs they claim, so caution here and a little research is warranted. I have heard a lot about TeraDaks too but have no experience with them.

ATB.

B

Thanks - Will have a think, not sure I would want to modify the TP but we will see. I am not a tinkerer as such so would require someone to do it.  I hear what you say about the Far East offerings, as have read of overheating etc. Sorry, I thought I had read that you were also using a TeraDak, my mistake.  Interesting that on the CA forum much is made of changing the PS powering the LPS-1 having little/no impact. Thankfully I am happy with the sound of my setup, so no hurry - but if we can remove another veil, well !!

Brilliant posted:

SamS posted:

Brilliant posted:

............

I would also encourage one to try an LPS in place of the Meanwell or iFi  powering the LPS-1 ( 2 amps  in the 7.5-9 VDC range, with adequate  heat sinking).

Oh dear - I was hoping to avoid the PS to power the PS slippery slope but I will no doubt succumb. I have a surplus TP 5V/3A PS which used to power a SB Touch but appears to be unsuitable for LPS-1 duties. It looks like the TeraDak units are favoured here, so will investigate. Thanks

Oh dear - apologies!

BTW the TP 5/3 can be turned into the TP 7/2 with a single resistor change if you are comfy  soldering a surface mount device or know someone who is. Teddy is helpful if contacted. Personally I found the TP powering the LPS-1 to miss the 'grunt' that Mr Underhill refers to above but otherwise excellent (very polished). It  might be much cheaper to use one of the far east offerings. Many can not meet the specs they claim, so caution here and a little research is warranted. I have heard a lot about TeraDaks too but have no experience with them.

 

ATB.

B

I just checked my TP 7/2 powering the LPS-1. The voltage under load is 7.2. The advice at CA is to have 2.5 amps at 7.5, 2 amps at 9 and 1.5 at 12 VDC, to effectively charge the Ultracaps in the LPS-1. This suggests the TP 7/2 may not have enough current.

Thanks Brill for saving me the trouble of exploring the TP mod.  I have looked at a few of the Far East Offerings (lots to choose from). 

A couple of questions if I may. There is a large range of Torroid transformer sizes 25VA, 30VA, 50VA, 100VA. Is larger necessarily better? 

Most torroids are of unknown branding but one maker uses Telema (which I believe Naim also uses or had used), but it is at the smaller end @ 25VA. So does quality possibly trump size here or nothing really to read into - or is there a recommended torroid size?

Spec for the 25VA seems spot on  - choice of 7/3; 9/2.5; or 12/2 giving each voltage setting a bit of amperage headroom, which I assume isn't a problem.

The larger Torroid models are similarly specced usually with higher amperage than required at the particular voltage.

Hi SAMS

Headroom is good  but you would want to check the overall design. I am guessing you are looking at the regulated ones in which case the regulation design determines the rated output?  For instance what you have (5/3, or 7/2), has a torroid of 50 VA with (output :2 x  9V/ 2.78A wired in parallel).

 At CA there is a fellow (DM) who posted some  basic measurements (noise & rated power) of 8 different units. There is more to PS performance though! You can search there for 'power supply group test LPS SMPS', but be sure to read some of the more informed comments. Zero-Zone super looks interesting but it costs the most in the group. TeraDak did not quite meet its claimed output but Ifi measured to spec!

The Meanwell powering the  LPS-1 is very good and ticks almost all the boxes for me. It is just that I do not find the music 'flow' as captivating as it can be (or relative to my DIY)!  As usual YMMV!

ATB

B.

Oh - my (limited) experience with the Far East transformers has been okay, and would be surprised if most of the common offerings weren't for this application. I would still pick a suitable Plitron for amplifier usage!

Whatever PS it might be -  always verify its output  level and polarity (with the DC cable plugged in) the first time you use it before you plug into your valuable equipment. There is little quality assurance out there.

Hi Sams,

LPSU for an LPSU?
LPSU from CHINA??

What sort of IDIOT does this sort of stuf??? Well, erm ........me.

If you want to follow the hite rabbit then this is a thread, in fact the latest in a number by this chap, that I have followed that have acted as a good source for ideas for me:

USB Chain Topic

A lot of this is discussed in DEPTH.

As a result I have bought a couple of R-Core Chinese LPSUs. I have found that in powering the R-Core has sounded better than the SBooster, and as you can see above arguably better than the LPS-1.

I have dropped messages to Vortexbox &  Uptone about using an LPSU to power the LPS-1, I have found that it does sound better, but I think it destabilised it. Neither company has replied to me so far. Others have had no problem I believe.

Interestingly I have found that I prefer the SBooster powering my Raspberry Pi 3 over the IFI/LPS-1; although the latter has marginally better detail and bass.

M

I believe Uptone Audio argues that any regulated feeder supply (LPS or smps) that meets the LPS-1 power draw, cannot possibly make a difference to SQ unless it is affecting the system with noise injected back into the wall AC. There is a thread at CA  from 2016 that kind of died off in the Sponsored Forums >UpTone Audio..>Discussions of alternate "energizing"/charging PS unit..

Brilliant posted:

When I have something that I like - I keep it. I have made many 'upgrades' in the past that just did not satisfy, so I am cautious that way. Numbers have to translate into my own personal satisfaction! If they returned the 1.3 board (which they do not)  then I would consider it.

It is an experimental setup at the moment, the  V1 is on a large TT shelf and the mR/USPCB is supported by a foam spacer . It is horizontal ( i.e. not the 90 degree option you are considering) as shown in the (poor) photo below.

Got my adapter in the mail today and absolutely floored. Best $35 in hifi. Also pretty sure, considering the direction these two companies keep going, that the 1.4 board upgrade is probably a no-brainer. Holding off for now but it's in the future for sure. 

Regarding the LPS-1 charging, pretty sure it only makes a difference as to smps vs lps if plugging into the same circuit as the rest of the hifi. I charge mine with an HDPlex with the 12v out, but mostly because I'm also charging the FMC with the 9v out. And it looks good next to the V1 and 110. The Naim gear and the HDPlex are on different dedicated circuits. 

Thanks for all the feedback/suggestions chaps. 

If I do try a Far East LPS it may well be the Zero-Zone as it certainly appeared the most robust in my search and confirmed as such on the CA thread. But I am wavering, as like Charles my Naim gear is on a separate spur with any SMPSs on the main house ring, so there may be little benefit.

But my main aim in all this, apart from acheiving good SQ, is to also try and keep things simple, which is what led me to the microRendu in the first place - replacing a SB Touch and Regen with one small box. Lots of dangly bits in the USB chain is not really where I want to go. So although as Mr U has found there are gains to be had, I just cant see myself going down that hole. Thanks, but he USB Chain Topic thread scared the hell out of me.

I think I will be content for the moment to enjoy the improvments the 1.4 board has brought, knowing that should the itch strike, there are areas to explore.

Now, if Uptone made their USB adapter with a micro plug for my Hugo, I might be persuaded to have a go.

I use a Chinese R-Core 12v/6a 100VA LPS for my Vortexbox server which is in the basement and on a different spur from the hifi altogether. Other than the fact that it took a week for the smell of rosin solder to burn off its been rock solid as far as I can tell. No idea if it makes a sound change though. I do think that for the LPS-1 unless you already have an LPS in house or a multi rail doing other duties, I would stick with the basic smps for charging. 

Have you considered trying an adapter with the USPCB into Hugo? No idea how much an adapter would degrade the sound but might be worth considering. Might be a two steps forward, one step back kind of thing, but hey, at least you'd get that one step and no more cable. 

Charles/Sams,

Yes, I have everything on teh same circuit, and is on my 'ToDo' list. This may well be why I hear differences.

If you are using the LPS-1 I would recommend playing with the DC-DC cable, this makes a very obvious difference.

M

I'm using a well made Chinese DC cable that is very short (6") between the mR and LPS-1. Sounds much better than the stock cable but only cost about $20. Thinking of trying a Ghent audio star quad one. He's now got Canare starquad for every connector you can think of - a slipper slope for sure with who knows what dividends, but sure would look pretty, esp if thinking it out and having it all to length. 

The resolution and detail on the USPCB connector is unbelievable. And the most striking thing is how uniform the soundstage is. I think this is sometimes to the detriment of grunt, but a surprising thing is I can go to the next room and it sounds almost exactly the same as being right in front of the speakers, with all the sounds perfectly defined but none more or less. Can be a bit disconcerting at times, hearing minute recording details (and all I have is Redbook rips) and it can seemingly take away some of the musicality (though none of the prat) but I'm sure my ears/brain will burn in in no time. Also really nice to have the mR and LPS-1 now packed away behind the V1 and out of sight. 

I think we may be using the same Chinese DC cable Charles. I had read about it on CA I think (might have been your post).  Purchased in February on Ebay (£17.85):

SLK Audio OCC HIFI DC Power Cable

I had tried a hard adapter a while back when I had the Regen going into the Hugo. It was a tight fit as the Hugo power wire was very close by and getting it secure was a PITA. Reconnecting with power on caused a bit of minor sparking which made me very uncomfortable. Don't recall any very notable gains in SQ that outweighed the unease it caused. This new adapter seems a bit longer so may fit more easily.

Yep that was me. Seems to work. 

The new adapter is a very good fit and pretty small (45mm exposed). Still need to rig up supports though but once set it's set.

Best, CP

And just found that flipping that tiny switch to off on the USPCB adapter (kills the 5v power) seems to bring back that nice Naim mid bass hump. The V1 doesn't need power to its USB. 

 I am staying 'ON' (VBUS 5V) on that  tiny little crazy switch, contrary to my own cable experience. I guess it has to do with differing parasitic coupling between the wires (cable) and traces on the USPCB. More detail more tuneful down below, better balance and clarity overall, but most of all more smiles.

Brilliant posted:

 I am staying 'ON' (VBUS 5V) on that  tiny little crazy switch, contrary to my own cable experience. I guess it has to do with differing parasitic coupling between the wires (cable) and traces on the USPCB. More detail more tuneful down below, better balance and clarity overall, but most of all more smiles.

Okay, may be not quite 'contrary' as I had modified the USB cable prior to owning the mR, so was running straight from the PC. In that setup getting rid of the VBUS did help SQ. Whether it would have helped with the mR and in my current setup, that I cannot say.

i got the Uptone USB adapter as well and just installed it -- sounds pretty good, and at a tenth of the cost of my USB cable. but early days. i tried to flip the VBUS switch to off, but no dice: Roon couldn't seem to find the microRendu, for some reason. perhaps my DAC (Chord 2Qute) needs that bit of power?

The Chord 2Qute needs the 5V, so you will want too keep the switch in the 'ON' position:

Quote from Rob Watts on Head-Fi

"Unlike Hugo, 2 Qute does draw power from the USB - this is because of the galvanic isolation - the USB chip is powered from the USB 5v, then the data is galvanic isolated from 2 Qute. The galvanic isolation gives quite a big improvement in SQ when using PC's or laptops as a source.
 
We can't isolate Hugo, as the technique draws power from the USB, so in portable applications the mobile would go flat too quickly. That said, with mobile phones and Hugo driving headphones, you don't actually need the isolation so much as RF noise levels are orders of magnitude lower than with PC's."

Enjoy!

ATB.

B.

charlesphoto posted:

......Thinking of trying a Ghent audio star quad one. He's now got Canare starquad for every connector you can think of - a slipper slope for sure with who knows what dividends, but sure would look pretty, esp if thinking it out

I tried his DC4 cable from the LPS-1. I thought it was a step up from the supplied DC-DC cable, but preferred the silver/teflon jobby I made from the Chinese sourced cable I linked to above.

I HAVE just ordered his dual DC starquad DC-DC GX12 cable to use with my R-Core DC30. One brancj will be used with the 1A LT3045 for the mR, the other will be a standby for when the F1 is inevitably superceded; USB interfaces are under rapid development.

M