The Hugo of streaming?

This uR sound descripton is very good, fully agree!

My problem with the reviews is that I find digital is just SO sensitive to power and grounding. I don't know just how much attention these people have spent on the setup.

Brilliant - like the diagram!

M

Hi M

Thank you. I like what I am hearing. I think the uR could still benefit from a different ps. I will experiment with the LPS-1/LPS supply in the future. I will get that LT3045 3A pcb (diyAudio) and a 50VA r-core tranny from the far east and put together another experimental ps. I also understand Paul Hynes has the SR4  now in production (£330 - 2A cont./20A transient = a smaller version of the SR7). Another tailored affordable option perhaps!  There should be some feedback at CA in the days to come.

ATB

B.

Hi B,

3A LT3045, I'll take a look!

For info:
Last week I did the full ropund of removing the FMCs & other audio route devices and then replacing them - having managed to simplify the 'chain' with the Uptone USPCB = everything stays!

Small incremental gains, but worth having.

M

I could be wrong, but the thread I am using is advising chaining devices. From what I have read I believe there are two types of LT3045, fixed and variable; these seems to be variable - which apparently are not as good.

From my POV I have set up:

ultraRendu: 2 x LT3045 7v1 1A - giving an available 2A to a device which functions on 1A; and

RPi3: 2 x LT3045 5v 1A - Giving 2A to a device that can function with up to 2.5A.

As it happens I now have two unused 0.5A 5v boxes hanging around, Think I may add an additional box for the RPi3 .....thing is, things are sounding really very good and I'd rather just listen to music.

I was thinking through my system over the last couple of days, as I have sold some gear and have some available funds for frivolous upgrades. I could:

Change my AV centre speaker from Audio Physic to a Focal Be II, to match my mains absolutely; or
Upgrade my LP12 with a Tangerine widget; or
Save up to get a 2nd hand EAR912; or .......

Bottom line is - I am actually pretty damn happy where I am and this feels like profligate waste. Think I may just by some CDs and give some money to charity for Christmas.

M

That is great to hear!! I want the ability to charge the LPS-1, and since it is on constantly I would need heat sinks on the regulators. He has catered for that. My last little project for the year.

The thread is in the Vendor's Bazaar forums. He is using LT3045 not the LT3045-1, even though his schematic shows LT3042 and is missing a connection at the output. His built up board is a bit expensive.

....things are sounding really very good and I'd rather just listen to music.

Fatal words of course!

A felloe Wammer popped over with his Chord Hugo, as he was thinking of the Border Patrol SE DAC, which I own, for his own system. I then visited him taking the BP with me.

The two systems:

Me: Files > RPi3 (LPSU) > ultraRendu (LPSU + LT3045x2) > AQ JB > Uptone USPCB > Singxer F1 > BP DAC > EAR868PL > EAR534 > Focal 1008be II
Him: NAS > Bespoke PC > dCS Bridge > Chord Hugo > Modwright 36.5 > Pass X250 > Bowers & Wilkins speakers.

We heard the same issues/highlights through both systems when swapping the DACs.

Example test tracks:

War of the Worlds – Thunder Child
War of the Worlds – Spirit of Man
ACDC – Thunderstruck
Meatloaf – Bat Out of Hell

Hugo
Greater resolution and finesse with high frequencies.
Mid band anaemic.

BP DAC
Propels you into the music
Real meat and heft to the music

......certain sharpness with rock and pop in the mid/high frequencies.

Observations

If you play either of the War of the Worlds tracks and listen to Richard Burton ‘S’es you hear an over-emphasis.

Bat Out of Hell has a souring guitar wail early on left field, through the BP it screeches.

Oppo 105D

When I got home I put in my Oppo 105D via its coax input – sabre ESS DAC.

All the problem files were STILL problems, perhaps even worse. This was also my experience when listening to the Schitt Yggdrasil (slightly less) and the Lampizator L4G5.

As a result of this I bought an IFI iDefender 3.0, and then did some listening tests. As soon as I plugged it in ALL the edge issues vanished, but so did some resolution. As the widget settled down over the next couple of hours the detail returned, as did some of the edge. This made me bite a bullet I have been avoiding:

My SingXer F1 was powered from the ultraRendu (uR), it has built in tech to clean the DC.
I made up a couple of cables, blocked the DC from the uR, and supplied the power from an LT3045 (0.5A 5v).

I then played with combinations of adapters, settling for the moment on:

IFI iDefender 3.0
SBooster VBus2 (Blocks the DC)
USB A > B adapter (This is the Sonore one, which in this arrangement I preferred slightly to the USPCB)

Result?
More body and detail.
Edge mainly gone - the Richard Burton hard 'S'es are still there, but there impact is reduced. Played a couple of other tracks which I know can be a bit hot in places, same result.

Yesterday I returned to my Wammer friends house where with another Wammer we did a four way DAC comparison:

Metatron supplied the venue, the base system & the Chord Hugo;
George the Audio Note 2.1 DAC and Esoteric D-03 DAC; and
I supplied the Border Patrol DAC.

Bottom Line: I am very happy.

The tracks included problems (War if the Worlds & Simon & Garfunkel - The Dangling Conversation), Difficult (Nina Simone) & tests (Bela Fleck).

My opinion:

All four DACs are good and will shine in different systems and your preference will be based on your tastes, for me:

Chord Hugo:
As above, mids just don't grab you, sounds to me a bit academic - doesn't communicate the joy.

Border Patrol:
Now this was more like it. The fun came back. Emotional communication. Perhaps a touch rolled off.

Audio Note 2.1:
Oh! The emotional connection of the BP, but greater transparency.

Esoteric D-03:
Initially AWFUL, this was connected via the AES dual leads from the dCS Bridge. Changed to the spdif, yes - this was more like it. Chord on steroids? But, for me, lacked the magical middle.

My order:

AN 2.1 > BP > Esoteric > Hugo.

Even better, the problem files were problems via all the DACs (apart from the Hugo - see above).

I think the essential DNA of the AN & BP are the same, but the BP is 1/3rd of the cost and is no way shamed by the comparison. For me this reconfirms the superb quality and VFM of the BP; but, I now have an idea of where I would be looking at going if I was willing to spend more.

M

Brilliant posted:

That is great to hear!! I want the ability to charge the LPS-1, and since it is on constantly I would need heat sinks on the regulators. He has catered for that. My last little project for the year.

The thread is in the Vendor's Bazaar forums. He is using LT3045 not the LT3045-1, even though his schematic shows LT3042 and is missing a connection at the output. His built up board is a bit expensive.

 

I built a simple 7.5 VDC LPS with this board using a Zero Zone 50W R-Core from the far east. I am getting excellent results feeding the Sonore ultraRendu. Music is 'fuller and sweeter' sounding (than with the Uptone Audio LPS-1). Lots of dynamics with great resolution. Very happy with it.

Hi Brilliant,

Yes, precisely my finding too. I sold my LPS-1, good LPSU but can be bettered for half the price with a bit of DIY (LT3045).

M

Hi M

Thanks for highlighting the LT3045. 

ATB.

B.

Grounding - Yet Again

As a result of a post elsewhere  I have revisited my grounding. The post included:

As John Swenson reported on post n*1,306, of the CA thread about DC earth:
"As I have said probably the best system looks like this:
no SMPS, just LPS, all outputs not grounded. ONE place in the system where the connected shields (signal shields, negatives of LPS outputs etc) are earthed. AC mains connections of the PS's are plugged into a single strip which does not have any form of filtering or "power conditioning" between outlets."

I think I included a link to JS's original post above, where he was recommending grounding an SMPS/LPSU from the neutral to the earth using a home made widget. BARE IN MIND HE IS BASED IN THE US. I am in the UK and so do NOT consider this to be safe.

I think the vocabulary that we use for the effects of this sort of electrical pollution are too broad; certainly mine has been, where I tend to use the word 'edge' - a LOT.

In my system I think I have noticed three effects:

1) Hard Sibilants
Hard 's'es. Example tracks:

War of the Worlds – Thunder Child (CD rip & Qobuz)
- Richard Burton has very hard 'S'es.
- Some singing vocals have same issue.
War of the Worlds – Spirit of Man (CD rip & Qobuz)
- Richard Burton has very hard 'S'es.
- Some singing vocals have same issue, Phil Lynott esp.
The Dangling Question - Simon & Garfunkle (CD rip & Q)
- Very hard 'S'es.

These are in the tracks themselves but have been further emphasised in my system.

I also here the effect in hard higher frequencies, such as cymbals. This can sound like increased detail, and on some tracks is positive; making it more difficult to identify as an issue.

2) Noise Floor
This has been effected in my system by both improving the grounding AND improving the quality of the source electricity, e.g. LT3045.

3) Hard Vocals
This is a new one I have noticed, due to the post referenced above.


In terms of grounding in my system I have tried:

a) The John Swenson Widgets (JS);
b) My system, of running a wire from all the cases of items in my digital chain back to my pre-amp (MS); and now
c) BOTH.

In the case of (a) and (b) the wires are fed back to an earthing block that is then connected to my pre-amp.

The effects of changing the grounding take a while to surface, like water finding a level.

With BOTH in place schemes in place I became aware of a hardness in vocals that was unpleasant. Try almost any Tori Amos track, where she really leans on a note it is not nice.

Running either (a) or (b) this effect ALMOST disappeared.

So, (a) = (b)?  NO.

This is all really subtle, but, in my system:
Scheme (a) - Hard vocals were minimised;
Scheme (b) - A touch more hard vocals, BUT also a bit more detail - slightly more transparent, able to follow detail in the music a bit more easily.

Again,as I am in the UK and I am NOT convinced that (a) is entirely safe, I am running happily with (b).

I am now sensitised to type (3) effects, and so I know I will now spend some time trying to remove it. If I find anything I will report back.

Next step:
A second DAC bake off, Border Patrol vs Audio Note 2.1 and 4.1 - in my system.

M

Hi Brilliant,

Found by better people than me - but, happy to pass it on.

Happy New Year.

M

It has been reported by a user over on CA that the German brand of FMC’s, Delock, sound much better than the TP LINK (I can’t recall the reason but I’ll search for it). Shipping for one (I would only need the one before the renderer) to the US would be as much as the unit itself, but we visit Germany once a year so maybe pick up one then, or have my wife’s sister bring one over this summer. Will report back if/when that happens. 

Hi Charles,

I saw that blog, I thought you had to do some DIY on the box? Or was that just to further improve it?

M

I think he was just improving it. If I followed correctly he first modded a TP, then found the Decware better, then even better modded and running at 3.3v. 

MQA

The Rendu's will be moving to OS 2.6 which will enable the first unfold. Time to try the free month of Tidal perhaps.

M

Brilliant posted:

I bet someone somewhere thought life would get a lot simpler with 0s and 1s!

If only, down at the physical levels we are talking here there is no such thing as 0s and 1s, just Manchester encoded analogue signals (on twisted pair Ethernet) ... the 0 and 1s happens later after a fair amount of processing.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Brilliant posted:

I bet someone somewhere thought life would get a lot simpler with 0s and 1s!

If only, down at the physical levels we are talking here there is no such thing as 0s and 1s, just Manchester encoded analogue signals (on twisted pair Ethernet) ... the 0 and 1s happens later after a fair amount of processing.

And even in these processes there are no such things as 0s and 1s.

There will only be (static) storage and (dynamic) transportation of EM charges.

To a point.. binary bit strings are indeed digital values of True/False or 1/0s, but perhaps we are making the same point, these are abstractions.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

To a point.. binary bit strings are indeed digital values of True/False or 1/0s, but perhaps we are making the same point, these are abstractions.

Hi Simon, and yes,

The point I try to make is that the common used mathematical models in computer-science are all based on the discretization of "analogue" values in our "quantum mechanical" world. While the interpretation of an EM charge/transport in computing models makes a clear distinction between 0 and 1, in the real world all EM charges are subject of quantum mechanics and so the EM charges/transports are subject to coincidence and will vary. Although this variation will NOT lead to a 0/1 transition (information wise), these charge/transport variation might lead to audible noise. Anno 2018 we are far from this theory.

In current state of (computer) chip technology the variance of charge (f.e. in electron units) per computing switching unit will vary far beyond the theoretical quantum uncertainty so let's wait for the quantum computer: Then we will get a real "bit perfect" computer. How to regenerate the perfect analogue music/signal reproduction out of this processing will remain the (IMO never ending) challenge.     

Hi indeed, however digital reconstruction of a continuous analogue from a discrete series of values is quite a separate challenge to the one of bit strings... in essence analogue reconstruction requires the mathematical Dirac delta function... ie an infinitely narrow spike of infinite energy to a precise point of time.. which of course can never be realised.. that is the conversion of ∑ to ∫ 

As this thread has been unloved for a while thought I would do an update. My system is singing very nicely but I have been continuing to tinker. The ultraRendu is performing very nicely but I have made a few changes of the following chain:

1. Replaced the Uptone PCUSB with an IFI Mercury 3.0 USB Cable
I bought this lat week with a 30 day return policy. Unfortunately it is definitely better, more detailed, beret sound staging - although a tad brighter lit; although I have had to change the powering slightly to accommodate the cable so the last may be a facet of that.

2. Replaced my SingXer F1 with a Matrix SPDIF2
Rather more expensive but an obvious upgrade. More detailed and warmer sound.

A thread I follow elsewhere that recommended the Mercury is also saying good things about the Uptone Iso Regen, so I have bought one 2nd hand to have a listen - I will report back.

Sonore have decided NOT to bring in the MQA first unfold, and on the whole I am content with that decision.

Edge
My ongoing battle to get detail and body, and exclude edge. This has proved to be a multi-facetted opponent. More recently I read a glowing review of the Focal Sopra 1 by Jerry of 10audio. In it he gave some very practical setup advice which was to block the ports and set your sub cross over at 65-70Hz. I went and got the bungs from my attic and followed his advice, although spending more time of the crossover point. I have my Focal II 1008be as far from my rear wall as I can manage in my room, in the event it was obviously still too close and that was poisoning my mid-range subtly, including edge. VERY happy with following the advice and another nice step forward.

M

Introduction
When I went to bed last night I was going to start this with: Well, the Mercury is going back - I just can't get it to work in my system in a balanced way.

What I loved about the Mercury was the insight and the detail. Listening to tracks I could hear into the production process as methods were laid bare, but it did this without making the music a by-product. The downside was the bright lift and sibilance/fricatives. Over the last few days I have run through a LOT of chains to try and come up with a balanced sound.

The chain which I have currently landed on, with which I am very happy, is:
uR (ag wiring in [LT3045 1A x 2] cu out) > iDef > PCUSB > IR (LT3045 5v 0.5A) > Mercury > Matrix


This may not be the end as I have one more card to play by adding the iPur back in, but I have got to the stage where I just want to listen to music for a few days.

The chain widgets tested:
R-Core LPSU 8.2v 6A
LPS-1 - not finally used
ultraRendu (uR)
Silver DC wires (ag)
Copper DC wires (cu)
IFI iDefender 3.0 (iDef)
Uptone PCUSB (PCUSB)
Uptone Iso Regen (IR)
LT3045
IFI Mercury USB 3.0 (Mercury)
IFI iPurifier 2 (iPur)
Matrix SPDIF2 (Matrix)


Conclusion
Very happy with this chain. Sound not quiet as forensic, but enjoyable and detailed. Going to live with this for a while!

N.B. I set the LPS-1 to one side as it was causing my R-Core LPSU to get rather hotter than I wanted, and added nothing when the IR was powered via an LT3045 (0.5A 5v).

Uptone Audio has improved on the LPS-1 with the LPS-1.2 power supply. When using the supplied smps charger with it and powering the uRendu, there is even more detail/timbre resolution perceived especially in the lower frequencies. Musically very engaging but again that  'thinness' of sound is still apparent when compared to the naked DAC-V1! Nonetheless - a keeper.

I also have tried the Paul Hynes SR4 with the uR. A high performer as well, especially in the sound stage focus dept! I do find it somewhat less captivating with the uR however (note:-perhaps needs more break-in as it only has been a couple of weeks). The magic happens though when it powers/charges the LPS-1 (not LPS-1.2, which needs 36W)!. The LPS-1 obviously has noise coupling through it and benefits from a 'quiet' charger! With the SR4 as its (rather expensive) charger, the LPS-1/uR results in  a captivating more 'fleshed out/smoother' sound albeit not as detailed as the LPS-1.2/smps. It begs the query whether the LPS-1.2 could be farther improved in a similar way (i.e. more body) with a better charger? A 2018 winter project perhaps!