The Hugo of streaming?

Hi Ralf,

The only reason I am starting with Bubbleupnp is I believe I will be able to stream Quboz - but I will end up running through many combinations until I find what works best for me.

M

Ah- thanks! So you would skip this if rendu has a native qobuz support?

T38.45 posted:

charlesphoto posted:

 

I have loaded Bubbleupnp server on my Synology NAS in the hope of streaming Qobuz, as well as my local music. My initial trials will be using DLNA and the Linn control point.

M

The rendu has a bubble upnp server mode on it so it can be what's called an open home renderer. 

why bubble? you could run minimserver on synology as a pre-installed download providing upnp. I run this with my auralic and controlling it with lumin. or is bubble different than minimserver?

tx!

ralf

Names can sometimes be quite misleading: BubbleUPnP Server is not an UPnP server!

BubbleUPnP is a UPnP and OpenHome control point and renderer running on Android, see  https://play.google.com/store/...bubbleupnp&hl=en

BubbleUPnP Server is a program that provides new services running on the top of UPnP devices. Among others, it makes UPnP renderers (for instance, Naim streamers or Chromecast Audio streamers) available as OpenHome renderers. This allows one to use control points like Linn Kinsky, Linn Kazoo, Lumin App or, indeed, BubbleUPnP to control non-OpenHome renderers. BubbleUPnP Server runs, among others, on Linux, OS X, Android, Windows. Please, see http://www.bubblesoftapps.com/...s_bubble_upnp_server

You can run Minimserver on your Synology NAS and BubbleUPnP Server on another machine in your LAN to make non-OpenHome renderers controllable via OpenHome control points.

For example, I am running Minimserver and upmpdcli (a MPD-based, OpenHome renderer) on a low power fit-PC3 connected to a Naim DAC via a USB to SPDIF interface. I have a copy of my music collection on an external SSD drive connected to the fit-PC3 via USB. This is my dedicated system for music replay.

Additionally, I am also running Minimserver and BubbleUPnP Server on a Raspberry Pi plugged into my router. The Pi is also connected to a 4TB external drive on which I keep the data that I want to make available on my LAN. The BubbleUPnP Server on the Pi has the only function of making a Chromecast Audio device (attached to an old radio in the kitchen) visible as an OpenHome renderer on the LAN.

I use Linn Kazoo as a control point. By selecting the Minimserver running on the fit-PC3 and upmpdcli as server and renderer (my default configuration) I can stream directly to the Naim DAC with virtually no data transfer over the (wireless) LAN. By selecting the Minimserver running on the Pi as a server and the Chromecast Audio as a renderer, I can stream over the wireless to the kitchen for occasional listening. This works fine even at 192/24. I do not have any NAS devices or Naim streamers in my LAN.

Hi Ralf,

Quboz = yes. BUT, I wouldn't expect the microRendu to have native support for Quboz or Tidal. In my mind it sits in the middle between your media server and  the DAC, it is operated via the control point software you choose to use.

Like NBFP I have loaded up Linn Kazoo, when the box arrives I will be able to have a play.

I will be looking at, for instance, JRiver in order to try PCM > DSD256 > Oppo.

Hi NBFP,

I also looked at the Raspberry and almost bought a Mac Mini. I had been looking at the reviews of the microRendu on Computer Audiophile.

M

I wish to he MicroRendu would slow for local storage. I may try the Sonicorbiter because I can attach my files locally as I really detest the streaming part of streaming. 

In my system actually streaming over Ethernet takes something away from the music. 

Brubacca posted:

I wish to he MicroRendu would slow for local storage. I may try the Sonicorbiter because I can attach my files locally as I really detest the streaming part of streaming. 

May be worth looking at the new SotM SMS-200 for this functionality.  Has a dedicated USB out for your DAC as well as a generic USB connection for a local drive.  I believe it's also using a custom SBC (single board computer) like the microRendu.

thanks for explaining- music CAN be complicated :-)

My microRendu (mR) arrived this morning. It is a very neat little grey metal box with the very minimum of documentation.

When you buy it it comes sans PSU, leaving the choice to the purchaser. I had decided to by the ifi 9V wall plug, although i was aware that this had been subject to a poor review in terms of noise; however, it is relatively cheap and will be replaced ....should the mR prove to be a keeper.

I had anticipated a fast install, but this proved to be wrong. There are various modes you can choose from and I had already decided to start with DLNA. My SYnology 1813+ has the Media Server installed, but I also installed Minimserver and Bubbleupnp. In terms of control software I had also loaded Foobar2000 and JRiver on to my laptop.

Getting Foobar2000 up and running proved a bit of a learning curve, but and hour or so later I had music, well ....I had notes.

Since my NS01 died I have been using my Oppo 105D as my network player and DAC, and boy have I been impressed by how capable it is. How does it compare to the NS01/BelCanto? I would say it is more detailed with maybe even more dynamics. However, I feel it verges in favour of HiFi detail, where the NS01/BC played music.

For my initial listening I attached the mR to the Oppo via USB and started with Signe from Eric Clapton Unplugged. Although some elements sounded good mid/high frequencies sounded like a cartridge was mistracking; my heart sank. I switched to the coaxial input via my HiFace I, which was recognised. Same result.

Feeling a bit despondent I switched to JRiver, and repeated the result.

I unloaded the DLNA/Upnp servers and switched to Logitech Music Server, also loading up the Quboz plugin. This was the easiest install, and I like the GUI. Streaming music in the background for a while I suspected that things were improving, and so did some searches. Sure enough the mR takes some extended running in, 100 hours apparently.

Currently I am listening to The Nightfly, many elements are very good, but I can still here the roughness in places.

Plan: Run in. Listen. Use JRiver to convert PCM > DSD. IF things have continued to move as I hope buy and SBooster PSU.

I'll report back later in the week.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

My microRendu (mR) arrived this morning. It is a very neat little grey metal box with the very minimum of documentation.

When you buy it it comes sans PSU, leaving the choice to the purchaser. I had decided to by the ifi 9V wall plug, although i was aware that this had been subject to a poor review in terms of noise; however, it is relatively cheap and will be replaced ....should the mR prove to be a keeper.

I had anticipated a fast install, but this proved to be wrong. There are various modes you can choose from and I had already decided to start with DLNA. My SYnology 1813+ has the Media Server installed, but I also installed Minimserver and Bubbleupnp. In terms of control software I had also loaded Foobar2000 and JRiver on to my laptop.

Getting Foobar2000 up and running proved a bit of a learning curve, but and hour or so later I had music, well ....I had notes.

Since my NS01 died I have been using my Oppo 105D as my network player and DAC, and boy have I been impressed by how capable it is. How does it compare to the NS01/BelCanto? I would say it is more detailed with maybe even more dynamics. However, I feel it verges in favour of HiFi detail, where the NS01/BC played music.

For my initial listening I attached the mR to the Oppo via USB and started with Signe from Eric Clapton Unplugged. Although some elements sounded good mid/high frequencies sounded like a cartridge was mistracking; my heart sank. I switched to the coaxial input via my HiFace I, which was recognised. Same result.

Feeling a bit despondent I switched to JRiver, and repeated the result.

I unloaded the DLNA/Upnp servers and switched to Logitech Music Server, also loading up the Quboz plugin. This was the easiest install, and I like the GUI. Streaming music in the background for a while I suspected that things were improving, and so did some searches. Sure enough the mR takes some extended running in, 100 hours apparently.

Currently I am listening to The Nightfly, many elements are very good, but I can still here the roughness in places.

Plan: Run in. Listen. Use JRiver to convert PCM > DSD. IF things have continued to move as I hope buy and SBooster PSU.

I'll report back later in the week.

M

Thanks for a first impression, hope things will improve! Please keep informing us about progression!

ralf

http://www.audiostream.com/con...#fdfEo3RGEqbLuvwX.97

wow:-)

Any more reports from users?  I am most interested.

I will give a review in some a couple of weeks. I received my microRendu today and plugged it in directly into my DAC-V1 and chose RoonReady mode. It worked straight away and I find the first result truly  incredible. I quickly tried some tracks (Yellowman, Mark Knopfler, Talking Heads) and did some listening to Radio Paradise (320kbps stream - which always amazes me how pleasant it sounds) and this microRendu left me speechless. I will try tonight if I can get the HQPlayer NAA Output to work (will need to understand how to set this up and implement) - quality should even more improve. My setup is merely a DAC V1 into a NAP200 DR with a Mac Mini as a source.

I'll pipe in and say I continue to be thrilled anew with my record collection thanks to the rendu. I just added over the weekend a used HDPLEX power supply. It has four rails and I was hoping to power my Vortexbox, switch and the rendu off of it, but the HDPLEX seemed to run uncomfortably hot. The sound was a lot less noisy but robbed of some dynamics as I think it was pushing the ups to the limit. Scaled it back to the HD powering just the rendu and the switch, and reverted to a supposedly lo noise Chinese hifi wall wart I've always powered the VB with. Some noise was back and treble not as good, but also the dynamics and PRAT returned (had to plug into same circuit as HD). The HD runs a lot cooler now. Going to get a separate lps for the VB; can't decide if I should just do an el cheapo from HK or move the HD over and get something better for the rendu. 

It's really that good. Hard to explain, and no idea where it might land on the Naim hierarchy of streamers. But for $640 bucks I knew I wasn't going much farther up the Naim chain, used or otherwise. Powering it with the HDPLEX (and the VB nas as well at the time) I suddenly had a funny feeling, a nice one, about the sound. It was like I was listening to vinyl again (and I haven't had a turntable in a long long time). A much better turntable than I ever owned before (that's not saying much). But with that same smooth, neutral, lush, fun sound of the real deal coming through. It's really that good. 

Got my box today together with the ifi power.....try to test it this evening.

Long story short: it's the best digital source I ever had. It eats my aurender, auralic,macmini and this after 30min playing...holy s..t!

my wife said: this box is great-will you keep it? She never ever says that to me.

In Upnp mode, it sounds  slightly better than roon, but still over the top. I don't have hqplayer. Folks, if you listen to this small thing you may ask yourself: why do I need all those big boxes? It's really that good, recommended!

ralf

I ordered one a couple of days ago.

I’ve long held the view that until the streaming landscape; both locally and over the internet, settles down it doesn’t make sense to make a significant investment in dedicated streaming hardware.

If I’d spent GBP 3K on a streamer in the last 24 months I’d be disappointed having tried Roon if I realised I couldn’t run it.

Things are changing fast. The increasing role of computing in audio has led to an influx of new engineers and designers with fresh ideas. Some better, others not. It’s a very interesting time for the industry.

Roon is a good example imo. It runs on many platforms including most recently NAS devices. It’s actively maintained and supported by an increasing number of players/DACs. Roon support means that if I like your hardware but not your software I might still be interested.

The SmR appeals because it can be used with propitiatory solutions like HQPlayer and Roon as well as Airplay and open source servers. It doesn’t lock me in to one vendor. It may; pending how well Roon works on a NAS, render my Mac Mini Music server unnecessary. When/If Roon support Deezer I may even be able to retire my Sonos Connect, further simplifying my setup.

Sonore’s microRendu and Roon are two examples of potentially disruptive ideas, that demonstrate the speed with which the industry is moving.

GregW posted:

I ordered one a couple of days ago.

I’ve long held the view that until the streaming landscape; both locally and over the internet, settles down it doesn’t make sense to make a significant investment in dedicated streaming hardware.

If I’d spent GBP 3K on a streamer in the last 24 months I’d be disappointed having tried Roon if I realised I couldn’t run it.

Things are changing fast. The increasing role of computing in audio has led to an influx of new engineers and designers with fresh ideas. Some better, others not. It’s a very interesting time for the industry.

Roon is a good example imo. It runs on many platforms including most recently NAS devices. It’s actively maintained and supported by an increasing number of players/DACs. Roon support means that if I like your hardware but not your software I might still be interested.

The SmR appeals because it can be used with propitiatory solutions like HQPlayer and Roon as well as Airplay and open source servers. It doesn’t lock me in to one vendor. It may; pending how well Roon works on a NAS, render my Mac Mini Music server unnecessary. When/If Roon support Deezer I may even be able to retire my Sonos Connect, further simplifying my setup.

Sonore’s microRendu and Roon are two examples of potentially disruptive ideas, that demonstrate the speed with which the industry is moving.

I agree with your observations and I think that the SmR is a very interesting device. But it still needs a NAS and a wired connection to the LAN. A device with user upgradeable local storage and wireless card would be a more flexible solution. It could offer the same functionalities of the SmR with the additional possibility of replaying from local storage and wireless control. It does not take rocket science to build such devices.

GregW posted:

I ordered one a couple of days ago.

I’ve long held the view that until the streaming landscape; both locally and over the internet, settles down it doesn’t make sense to make a significant investment in dedicated streaming hardware.

If I’d spent GBP 3K on a streamer in the last 24 months I’d be disappointed having tried Roon if I realised I couldn’t run it.

Things are changing fast. The increasing role of computing in audio has led to an influx of new engineers and designers with fresh ideas. Some better, others not. It’s a very interesting time for the industry.

 

Greg, I have been streaming since the late 90s and seen the space evolve. I would say streaming has become rather mature and established now with various families of streaming having evolved and has probably 'settled down' severeal years ago and is clearly here to stay for a while unlike minidisc or DCC. There will always continue to be innovation, but the big architectural evolutions and rapid changes from the early 2000s have probably largely gone now. It's more a case innovation in usability, tweakery  and differing platforms, such as streaming over 3G and 4G in cars and mobiles.

nbpf posted:

GregW posted:

I ordered one a couple of days ago.

I’ve long held the view that until the streaming landscape; both locally and over the internet, settles down it doesn’t make sense to make a significant investment in dedicated streaming hardware.

If I’d spent GBP 3K on a streamer in the last 24 months I’d be disappointed having tried Roon if I realised I couldn’t run it.

Things are changing fast. The increasing role of computing in audio has led to an influx of new engineers and designers with fresh ideas. Some better, others not. It’s a very interesting time for the industry.

Roon is a good example imo. It runs on many platforms including most recently NAS devices. It’s actively maintained and supported by an increasing number of players/DACs. Roon support means that if I like your hardware but not your software I might still be interested.

The SmR appeals because it can be used with propitiatory solutions like HQPlayer and Roon as well as Airplay and open source servers. It doesn’t lock me in to one vendor. It may; pending how well Roon works on a NAS, render my Mac Mini Music server unnecessary. When/If Roon support Deezer I may even be able to retire my Sonos Connect, further simplifying my setup.

Sonore’s microRendu and Roon are two examples of potentially disruptive ideas, that demonstrate the speed with which the industry is moving.

I agree with your observations and I think that the SmR is a very interesting device. But it still needs a NAS and a wired connection to the LAN. A device with user upgradeable local storage and wireless card would be a more flexible solution. It could offer the same functionalities of the SmR with the additional possibility of replaying from local storage and wireless control. It does not take rocket science to build such devices.

There is another model from SmR with the possibility to add USB drives locally! No NAS needed....

T38.45 posted:

nbpf posted:

I agree with your observations and I think that the SmR is a very interesting device. But it still needs a NAS and a wired connection to the LAN. A device with user upgradeable local storage and wireless card would be a more flexible solution. It could offer the same functionalities of the SmR with the additional possibility of replaying from local storage and wireless control. It does not take rocket science to build such devices.

There is another model from SmR with the possibility to add USB drives locally! No NAS needed....

T38.45, could you name this "USB drive" model , I don't seem to be able to find it? It would be a most interesting solution particularly if its in a similar price range to the microRendu.

Sorry, Sonicorbiter...guess a link is not forum compliant...

Its the SonicOrbiter SE , which is their OS loaded on a CuBox. I think that it will not sound as good as the MicroRendu.

Another option seems to be a SOTM SMS-200, although the Operating System does not appear as advanced, it claims to be a dedicated audio device with a dedicated /filtered audio port. 

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. 

So, if I understand correctly, the Microrend, plus power supply to enable operation, is essentially a renderer,  that takes an SD card for some [interchangeable] storage?

So, in effect it replaces the rendering part of, say, an ND5XS, or in respect of a Mac Mini / Audirvana system it replaces Audirvana (but not the MM as that can be a huge music store). 

Has anyone compared SQ of MicroRendu into, say, a Hugo or other comparable or better DAC,  against Mac Mini/Audirvana (including an isolator/convertor such as Gustard U12 if using with a DAC without galvanic isolation and full rf filtering such as Hugo), played through high quality amp and high quality full range speakers?

>>Has anyone compared SQ of MicroRendu into, say, a Hugo or other comparable or better DAC,  against Mac Mini/Audirvana (including an isolator/convertor such as Gustard U12 if using with a DAC without galvanic isolation and full rf filtering such as Hugo), played through high quality amp and high quality full range speakers<<

>> Yes, I run a macmini + audirvana (jitterbug plugs), an aurender and an aries. MicroRendu beats them all. Before that, I run NDS and Linn Klimax DS.

First time that digital sounds like analog imho: smooth, floating, fast, enough PRaT. They must have put some magic dust in this gear. So if somebody tries tells you all digital sources are the same simple ignore it....

Ralf

add on: the SD card runs the OS, you can not remove it as i understood...