The Hugo of streaming?

Ok..  Will do in the AM.  

As a general question rather than mR specific, what the issue is with 'gapless play' that seems to get much mention? I'm puzzled because with the systems I've used, music that is meant to run together, e.g albums with no gaps between tracks, always have played seemlessly, and that includes With my current renderer that loads each individual track into memory before starting play - does that mean it is not the case with all music store/renderer combinations? Or is gapless play something different, removing gaps such as any run-out time on a track?

(My experience has been ND5XS by wired network from NSA 325 NAS running Twonky, then running Logitech Media Server (changed because Twonky often took ages for the streamer to find it after switch on or rebooting), then changed NSA to Mac Mini running Serviio, then changed from ND5XS to Audirvana renderer on the MM itself).

Just tested DSOTM and yes iit does run gapless correctly.  

ReadyNas Duo w/ MiniDLNA -> Wireless Router -> Wireless Bridge -> mR Bubble Server -> Schiit Gumby 

Linn Kazoo as app on Android configured to use the Open Home Renderer from Bubble Server.  

Thx B,

I'll try it a bit later. Currently running through my 'review' playlist. Amazed at how good Buckley track Grace is, never heard it better. However, not always completely positive, Phil Collins Tarzan is a great soundtrack but Collins spits through his vocals. The mR/Oppo resolves lots more detail but what was barely bearable tips over the edge for me. Everything else is coming up roses! Even Motown.

Currently listening to The Wall, but as this is an LP rip which I haven't broken in tracks it is perfectly gapless. Hearing all sorts of detail that has never resolved before - but in a musical undistracting way. By this I mean that the Oppo sans mR edges towards HiFi, the Bel Canto definitely avoids this but I feel isn't as dynamic or detailed. The mR adds the advantages of the Bel Canto to the Oppo, a great synergy.

Happy bunny, and more tweaking to come.

M

This afternoon played with:

foobar2000. Bit Heath Robinson. Certainly works. Tried to get it to transcode PCM > DSD. Thought I had followed instructions, including loading the Oppo drivers, got trills and clicks. WIP.

JRiver. Don't like the way it organises the Library, as I have my files in a well ordered directory structure. Possible to overcome this. Different sound to LMS. Sounded better with one 9624 LP rip, but worse with another. Looked into PCM > DSD, appears to need a local connection, I assume a share to the files, not available through DLNA, WIP.

Linn Kazoo. Oooooo, I like this - and yes gapless into the Oppo via the mR, listening to Eric Clapton Unplugged.

M

Been trying combinations of clients and servers with the mR, my notes:

Setup 1: Synology 1812 - Bubbleupnp / Kazoo / mR - DLNA Mode
Gapless: Y
UI: OK. Would be better if I didn't use my 'CamelCase no spaces' file and directory names methinks. Like that I can navigate file structure.
Qobuz: Y
Playlists: Y
DSD: Not checked.
PCM > DSD: Not discovered so far.
Notes:
Music. 4416. Adele 21, very aware of the compression.
Music. 4416. 4416. Eric Clapton Unplugged. Signe. Lots of easily evident detail.
Music. 9624 - LP. Paul Simon Still Crazy. Sharp sounding album, and not disguised here.
Seems faster on its feet than LMS, but also shows recording issues more readily. Seat of the pants stuff, really enjoy it.
UI: Doesn't display folder graphics as album covers. I suspect this is an issue with Bubbleupnp/Media Server. Will try Minimserver.


Setup 2: Synology 1812 - LMS / mR - Sqeezelite Mode
Gapless: Not discovered so far
UI: I like it. Not pretty.  Like that I can navigate file structure.
Qobuz: Y
Playlists: Y
DSD: Apparently, not tested
PCM > DSD: Not discovered so far.
Notes:
Music. 4416. Adele 21, far less aware of the compression than via Setup 1.
Music. 4416. Eric Clapton Unplugged. Signe. Detail there, IF listened for.
Music. 9624 - LP. Paul Simon Still Crazy. Sharp sounding album, but not via LMS.
Kinder, but less incisive.

Setup 3: Synology 1812 - Media Server / Foobar2000 / mR - DLNA Mode
Gapless: Y
UI: Complicated with different widgets for separate functionality. Very flexible and configurable.  Like that I can navigate file structure.
Qobuz: N.
Playlists: Y
DSD: Y
PCM > DSD: Y.
Notes:
I feel that with DSD on the fly transposition this seems to be a good compromise btwn Kazoo & LMS.


Setup 4: Synology 1812 - Media Server / JRiver / mR - DLNA Mode
Gapless: Y
UI: Developed and displays my folder.jpg correctly. Haven't found out how to navigate file structure, but easy search functionality.
Qobuz: Not that I can see.
Playlists: Y
DSD: Y.
PCM > DSD: For LOCAL zones. Not tested. N.B. Apparently JRiver can make use of the Foobar2000 ASIO plugin.
Notes:
Music. 4416. Adele 21. Seems to be a good compromise bwtn Kazoo & LMS, but can sound a bit overly full in my system.
Music. 4416. Eric Clapton Unplugged. Signe. As above.
Metadata. Nicely integrated with the UI.

Conclusion:

Work in progress. My immediate feeling is that I will continue to use Kazoo, LMS and Foobar2000. I wish Foobar did Qobuz.

M

M,

you should give Lumin a try, it runs on my old ipad. 

Ralf

With Lumin I love the way in the browser modes it shows all of the genres and artists in a continuous grid with all of the albums shown, instead of constantly having to move into and back out of folders. No streaming accounts available though., or maybe I'm not looking in the right place (I use with minimserver, perhaps Tidal etc with a different server?). 

Hi Ralf,

I have an aversion to Apple, I perceive but a finger of the claw of Mordor!

M

Setup 5: Synology 1812 - Media Server / HQPlayer/ mR - NAA Mode
Gapless: Y
UI: Basic, but you can use it in combination with JRiver or Foobar.
Qobuz: Not directly.
Playlists: Y
DSD: Y.
PCM > DSD: For LOCAL zones. Not tested. N.B. Apparently JRiver can make use of the Foobar2000 ASIO plugin.
Notes:
Music. 4416. Phil Collins. Tarzan. Transcoding to DSD does remove some edge, but it also strips out a lot of life.
Easy to move between DSD and PCM output.

Our little office music system has worked a treat for the last 3 years or so.  The hardware is:

• Synology NAS drive (our 2nd one now, a DS716+)
• 2011 mac mini with itunes & the Bitperfect app
• Naim DAC-V1
• NAP140
• NACA5 cable
• PMC DB1i, wall mounted using PMC's brackets

All the computery stuff is connected to a Netgear switch via CAT6A cable.

The mac mini is starting to get tired, so a microRendu is on the cards as a relatively low cost successor.

I understand that the mR will work a treat with a NAS drive, so here's my very, very basic question:

The Synology NAS drives apparently comes pre-loaded with minimserver software but I have no idea where that is.  I have found Synology's DSM software and its itunes compatibility app thingy  - both have worked reliably for all 3 years.

But this minimserver software?  Where do I find it/download it/install it?

Best regards,

Your friendly knuckle dragger

FOOT TAPPER,

I recently implemented Minimserver on my Synology NAS. I'm not entirely convinced that transcoding from FLAC to WAV on the fly definitely improves sound quality, but I have stayed with Minimserver (rather than the Synology music server) because it displays album art much more efficiently and quickly. 

Unfortunately, (unless this has changed recently) Minimserver is not bundled with your Synology NAS. You will have to download & install Minimserver for your NAS (having first installed the appropriate version of JAVA for your NAS), download Minimwatch (for your Mac or PC) to allow you to configure Minimserver on your NAS, and finally download and install Minimstream (for your Mac or PC) if you want to set Minimserver to transcode from FLAC to WAV on the fly. These downloads are all available from the Minimserver web site, along with reasonably clear instructions about how to identify the correct version of JAVA for your specific NAS model, and how to install MinimServer, MinimWatch and MinimStream.

Looks and sounds complicated, but it's not really.

The only issue I had was that the documentation for minimWatch is not fantastic (or pretty c**p). so I was a little unsure that it had installed correctly.

Why not give it a go?

I have just ordered a microRendu, and my intention will also be to use this device in conjunction with Minimserver on my Synology NAS and my Hugo DAC.  Remember that the microRendu does not come with a power supply, so you will have to purchase the £45 iFi 9v linear power supply often bundled with the unit, or order a better power supply such as the SBooster 5-6v (not currently in stock in the UK).    

By the way, I should have added:

I am not sure what front end control app you currently use for your NAS streaming. microRendu is compatible with a number of apps (including Roon). I intend to use Linn's Kazoo app which I believe to be compatible with one of the modes (or output protocols) of the microRendu. I already use Kazoo with a Linn Klimax DS in a separate system, and so I am perfectly comfortable with it.

The only downside with switching from the Naim app to  Kazoo is that the highest resolution version of Radio Paradise will no longer be available. But then, I do most of my Internet Radio listening on my Muso Qb anyway. 

Mr Underhill - if you are using JRiver as a DLNA server by default it will transcode to MP3, which might account for the different sound quality, You can also construct as many views as you want of your  media, so there's no need to put up with a view you don't like. 

Tools > Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers >  Audio > Mode : Original

will stop the transcoding.  And

Tools > Options > Media Network . Customize Views is where you get the views to behave as you want. Iirc you need to restart MC to make new view visible.  

Notice also that you can load tags from file names and folders. 

Tools > Library Tools > Fill Properties from filename

If you are nervous about updating tags in your media, you can tell JRiver to just use its own database. This makes messing around very safe, and indeed very fast.

hth

with roon streaming you'll have internet radio as well....that's what i do: roon /internetradion-----mircorendu-----dac

Hi Likesmusic,

I'll check, thanks.

M

Hi Likesmusic,

You were quite right. Changing as you suggested removes that 'overly full' quality I noted above and adds detail. I think this is now like like listening to to LMS, in terms of tone, but with the detail I hear from Kazoo. Thought I would go back to my current standard test for poorly recorded music - Tarzan. Great heft and detail, but those Sssssses are still painful. Here LMS, and  my Bel Canto DAC, are just kinder.

I do like JRiver. Do you know if it can integrate with Quboz? Did a couple of searches that seemed to indicate NO. If I could get that working with it then I would have a hard job deciding between Kazoo and JRiver, and would need to do some loooong listening tests.

Thx,

M

Thank you HMACK, much appreciated.  I'll give it a go.

Am I right in thinking that the microRendu does the same job as the Moon MiND 180 streamer then (once it has a power supply, that is!)?

Best regards, FT

Hmack posted:

The only downside with switching from the Naim app to  Kazoo is that the highest resolution version of Radio Paradise will no longer be available. But then, I do most of my Internet Radio listening on my Muso Qb anyway. 

It's my understanding that the highest quality Radio Paradise streams; 320k AAC, have been available to everyone for some time now and are not exclusive to Naim.

http://www.radioparadise.com/r...isten&file=links

If Kazoo has the ability to manage custom streams then using the 320k AAC stream should be possible.

The most recent version of Roon supports internet radio streams, which is how I'm listening to Radio Paradise in 320k AAC. Compared to my Sonos Connect it sounds superb via the microRendu.

Foot tapper posted:

Am I right in thinking that the microRendu does the same job as the Moon MiND 180 streamer then (once it has a power supply, that is!)?

At a high level both devices are network streamers, but after that they approach the task of rendering network audio quite differently.

The microRendu is purposefully limited to one Ethernet input and one USB output, the Moon also accepts wifi and has more outputs, making it's hardware more flexible. Sonore's logic is that dedicated focused hardware will give better results and limited output options is a worthwhile trade off.

On the software side the microRendu has more flexibility, supporting a number of protocols including Squeezebox, AirPlay, MPD/DNLA, MPD/SMB, HQ Player NAA, Roon and classic UPNP/DNLA. Moon is UPNP/DNLA only.

@MR UNDERHILL has been doing sterling work testing the various options and documenting his thoughts. Keep in mind only one playback option is available at any one time i.e. You can not use AirPlay and DNLA at the same time for example. I think software flexibility is one of the key reasons behind the microRendu's popularity.

Mr Underhill .. alas you cannot integrate JRiver with Qobuz. It's annoying for me because I am a Qobuz subscriber! Well, actually you kinda can .. if you use JRiver as a player, typically with a USB Dac or a USB/spdif converter, then JRiver can be set to be a Windows driver to which you can point the output of Qobuz. This would have the advantage that you get any of the JRiver DSP - up sampling, and buffering etc - that you fancy. JRiver is, ime, excellent. I use it with a Chord DAVE, and use the superb remote app JRemote. In particular I can organise my music how it suits me and search it intelligently. But it is a powerful product with lots of features, so it takes a bit of getting into .. the forum is good though.

If you load BubbleUpnp Server on the MicroRendu and create an openHome instance you are able to stream Qobuz and Tidal with Linn Kazoo app

Thanks Likesmusic,

I have looked at a couple of other possibilities as well. This is a stonking player, but without a simple Quboz plugin / interface I suspect I may stick with Kazoo. I'll play it exclusively for a couple of days and then swap back; see how much pain is induced!

M

GregW posted:

Hmack posted:

The only downside with switching from the Naim app to  Kazoo is that the highest resolution version of Radio Paradise will no longer be available. But then, I do most of my Internet Radio listening on my Muso Qb anyway. 

It's my understanding that the highest quality Radio Paradise streams; 320k AAC, have been available to everyone for some time now and are not exclusive to Naim.

http://www.radioparadise.com/r...isten&file=links

If Kazoo has the ability to manage custom streams then using the 320k AAC stream should be possible.

The most recent version of Roon supports internet radio streams, which is how I'm listening to Radio Paradise in 320k AAC. Compared to my Sonos Connect it sounds superb via the microRendu.

Thanks Greg,

I'll give Radio Paradise (320k AAC) a try on my Linn Klimax/Kazoo system with a view to also getting access via the microRendu on my other system when it arrives.

Hello,

I wonder if any of the early users of the microRendu can help me.

My microRendu arrived this morning and I have set it up to give it a go on my Hugo DAC based system. I don't yet have a decent power supply for the unit (I'm just using the cheap iFi power supply for the time being) and I am using a (very) low cost USB to micro USB cable that I stole from one of my satnavs, so I don't want to comment on sound quality as yet.

However, I do have a few issues, and I hope that someone will be able to resolve them for me and save me a bit of time.

The basic setup and connection was pretty straightforward. I chose the DNLA setting in the configuration setup to enable uPnP from my Synology NAS running minimServer, and have been using Linn Kazoo as the control app. The Kazoo app on my iPad pretty quickly offered me the option of selecting my Klimax Renew (on my other system) or the microRendu, and having selected the microRendu I was able to stream music successfully from my NAS through my Hugo.

Easy, or so I thought. Unfortunately, I have encountered 3 problems, and I hope that someone can point me in the right direction:

1. Although the Kazoo app on my iPad recognizes the presence of my microRendu, the Kazoo apps on my Windows 10 desktop and laptop don't. I can not find any way to connect to the microRendu from them.

Does anyone know why this might be the case, and how I might be able to get my Windows 10 Kazoo apps to find the microRendu?

2. When connected to the microRendu, via Kazoo, I can find no way to access Tidal or Internet Radio. I am limited to uPnP streaming from my NAS.

I have come across a suggestion for resolving this by installing bubbleUPNP server on my iPad and PCs and obtaining access to Tidal in this way. Can someone explain why I need bubbleUPNP on my control devices. I assume that the Linn integration with Tidal is configured within the Klimax Renew DS itself, and not via Kazoo, which is why Tidal is not currently available as an option in Kazoo for the microRendu. Will the same bubbleUPNP Server suggestion also provide me with access to Internet Radio, and will the fact that I have minimServer installed on my NAS and bubbleUPNP installed on my iPad/PCs be likely to cause me any problems down the line.

3. Do I need to do something to allow me to stream DSD files via the microRendu?

When I attempt to stream DSD files at the moment, I simply get white noise.

I'd be grateful for any help.