If the NAIM sound is really superlative and true..

Unless you've asked these professionals how do you know they haven't ?

Superlative is a subjective judgement, and ‘true’ is very often irrelevant, in that most of what we listen to is just an illusion created in a studio. I do think it’s a good idea to listen to some different HiFi now and then, just to keep your expensive upgrade plans (or lack of them) meaningful. 

Haim Ronen posted:

..why so very few among the professionals who are best equipped to evaluate it, musicians, recording engineers and Hi Fi reviewers, own NAIM gear?

What exactly do they own?

My guess is that Naim is aimed at the home market whereas other brands may be aimed at the pro market (even though its prices are way up there).

You pay more for features, decor friendly design, marketing, etc. with a brand like Naim than you would with pro gear.

Same like automobiles, tools, etc...

I'm quite happy with my 4 door sedan and a small lightweight Makita drill but my neighbor who does renovations for a living drives a big ugly Dodge Ram pickup truck and uses only heavy duty Milwaukee power tools.

A couple of the hifi world guys own naim....

Either not paid enough, or have grown up more - not wanting to come back home to a three stacked stash of gear to remind them what an awful job they did in the office - .

If I had to listen to music all day for my job, I think I'd come home and want - no demand - SILENCE.

Haim Ronen posted:

..why so very few among the professionals who are best equipped to evaluate it, musicians, recording engineers and Hi Fi reviewers, own NAIM gear?

Having started my career in studio engineering.. I would say just like in many pursuits you get your real enthusiasts who are likely to choose Naim as any other niche high end equipment manufacturer ... and those who are less bothered.. you shouldn’t necessarily confuse passion and enthusiasm with professional competence.. though admittedly there is an overlap.. it’s not necessarily so... therefore I would say equally just because you work professionally with audio doesn’t make you more qualified on how you prefer to listen to your music.

A Naim dealer and musician of my acquaintance told me long ago that musicians in his experience, number as owners of a high resolution sound system; about the same percentage as the general pubic - i.e not many of them.

With regard to the superlative (?) Naim sound; all music replay in the home is an artificial construct - and thus a matter of personal taste. It ain't right and it ain't wrong.

Good listening y'all.

John.

I worked in Automotive for most of my life and vehicles are use a method of A to B. My daughter just loves them, like I like my music. I can understand musicians just seeing it as a small part of their life and Hifi being a bit of a nonevent. But I guess there are some musicians who like their Hifi, even if it’s a home studio.

I think there isn’t a musicians brand of audio equipment, otherwise we would see that back in marketing efforts. Like many others said, it’s a lot about personal taste.

I know Bass player Charlie Haden owned a top Naimsystem.

I know quite a few sound engineers and surprisingly none of them have the slightest interest in hifi or even own decent home systems,

Bob green posted:

I know Bass player Charlie Haden owned a top Naimsystem.

Yes he did and at the time he insisted on getting  the first 555 player in North America. Perhaps his system had something to do with the fact that the sound engineer who was recording few of his albums was also the NAIM dealer in Chicago.. Keith Jarrett also has a very nice non-NAIM system.

I guess you have a different perspective on the value of music in the home depending on whether music is your hobby or your job. Most of us like to leave our jobs at our workplace and prefer not to bring 'work' home with us. Even if you work from home, it is advisable to have some physical separation between work and home life.

Just a theory though and I can offer no evidence if this holds true for sound engineers and musicians.

I used to own the same system as Steve Jobs. I know it's irrelevant but I felt like throwing it in anyway.

The truth is a lot of professionals just are not that into hifi. When it comes to cables, amps and playback sources, most pros categorise equipment into two categories only: those components that work, and those that don't.

So when they flick a switch and the light comes on, it's job done as far as some are concerned. 

It's the same for musicians and there have been a few threads on this that are interesting reads. Being into music and caring about faithful reproduction do not seem to go hand in hand. Some musicians care deeply. All those that I know however, could scarcely be called music lovers by my limited standards. They lived and breathed to play music but at home they had an old $50 boombox and about 10 CDs and that was the extend of their hifi and collection. They didn't think I was a true music lover and I didn't think they were so we left it at that.

If we are talking just about those who do care, well there are a few things to consider:

1. Studio engineers who buy hifi often gravitate to brands they are familiar with from the studio.
2. I was not actually aware that Naim had a monopoly on being classified as superlative or true sounding 
3. [some] Musicians hear music totally different to mere mortals. Some hear it in their head so much that regardless of what they play back on, their brain fills in the gaps. Others are incapable of holistically evaluating correctness and measure it purely on how accurate their known instrument sounds. A huge number (not all - no need to get offended you musicians out there) fall into this category. I know a violin player who's idea of a correct hifi is to buy 3-way speakers specifically so you can disconnect the bass units and have treble and mid only because they think anything below 400Hz is fundamentally wrong. I so wish that person was not a one off but I've met a few of similar ilk.
4. Ditto for production side staff. What you hear in a totally dead mixing booth or via PA equipment at a large venue is nothing like the band playing in-the-room effect many of us strive for. That's really a different benchmark.

I suspect people on the pro side that end up with more experience with recording and mastering  non amped music (maybe choral or small venue jazz etc.) have a closer feel to what the average audiophile considers correct and from that subset, I'd expect about the same tiny fraction to gravitate towards Naim.

Surely a “superlative and true” hifi system is one you don’t hear, because it is transparent and simply plays the recorded sound exactly as recorded, in all aspects and I distorted in any way: frequency spectrum, dynamics, phase, timing, etc. So if there is a ‘Naim sound’- as indeed is frequently suggested, it cannot be that superlative. (Ditto if the speakers don’t equitably reproduce the full range recorded, or something makes the music “boogie” when it is not boogieing music, etc. )

I think many musicians are more focused on the production of music versus the reproduction of music, and they would rather put big money into their instruments than their hifi systems. Given that, I'm pretty sure my Naim dealer mentioned that one of the local symphony musicians (or possibly the conductor) has a pretty high end Naim/Dynaudio system.

here there is one explanation from a concert pianist:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mStHhlp7UGM 

Yes that makes sense.

NAIM cultist here.

Drummer, though. Not actually a ‘musician’. ????????

Naim does have a degree of colouration more than lots of recording engineers like the less colour the better. 

As for hifi critics they have access to equipment we can only dream of having access too perhaps we might not use Naim with the same level of access. 

We Naimites are not audiophiles we like our music with a hint of Naim true audiophiles like it pure. 

because naim is expensive.

Bob the Builder posted:

Naim does have a degree of colouration more than lots of recording engineers like the less colour the better. 

As for hifi critics they have access to equipment we can only dream of having access too perhaps we might not use Naim with the same level of access. 

We Naimites are not audiophiles we like our music with a hint of Naim true audiophiles like it pure. 

I think every brand has a color. Eve the ones which are presumed to be neutral.

analogmusic posted:

because naim is expensive.

?

Naim sound! True, possibly not, superlative, definitely yes, reminds one of a live concert, yes. So if pro's aren't using Naim, and who says they aren't, then it may be because of my first statement above! I'll await the flak. If you can go by the advertising blurb, PMC speakers and amps have a toe hold in the pro camp. Rich