The best standard power cord?
Posted by: Efraim roots on 25 January 2010
Greetings!
Naim is very sensitive to installation I have learned and I'm trying to get most out of my 202/200. I got the 'I Sheng' powercord with the nap200 and I today thought that I should try a 'Ching Cheng' that came with my Lingo2 on the nap200. I also did a search on this forum and read that 'ching cheng' also been used as standard cord with Naim equipment aswell as Linn.
I must say that the difference is really fundamental were the 'ching cheng' is more warm, tuneful and balanced the 'I sheng' is more cold and clear, more 'hammering' rythmwize. I think I prefer the ching cheng in the long run but I will experiment some more.
I also compared the 'I sheng' with a recent Linn standard cord called 'Tongyuan' on my Lingo2 and did not hear the same differences as on the amp, here the Tongyuan was simply better on everything, tunwize, PRAT and soundwize.
Have somebody tried and compared the different standard cords sent with Naim equipment? Wich do you prefer? Have you taken notice on the direction of the cable? It's a shame that the direction of standard cables are random. I would like to know wich is best musically and PRATwize.
If I buy a new cord from my Naim dealer which will I likley get today? Im located in northern Europe.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by winkyincanada
I think that anyone who posts on a public forum postulating about the effect of directionality of power cords sets themselves up for a bit of ridicule.
I never said that power cords couldn't make a difference, it's just that I think an extraordinary claim such audible directionality requires extraordinary proof.
We read and post here expecting debate. Ok, my "get a life" exortation was a perhaps a bit personal, but really, directional power cables? Do they make the music more "danceable"?
Please don't be so sensitive. Enjoy the debate and controversy.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
winky,
Standard power cords can have the text running towards the wall or the other way around, even if the cable and plugs are the same. This is quite random as these cable makers don't care about that. It could be a factor to consider. Every cable Naim make is clearly directional, why wouldn't the power cable benefit from a 'right' direction? Perhaps the differences isn't big, but if it is better it is better. It is also quite easy to choose if you focus on the musicality.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by winkyincanada
The cable makers don't care because it makes no difference. Alternating current is just that. It moves in both directions. The direction of the copper and insulation in power cords (if they even have a direction) makes no difference. I think you are imagining it. I'll stop now.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
These cable makers are making cables mostly for PCs, toasters or whatever so direction is not important to them.
But what about the direction of Snaic and NACA5, is that just imagination from Naim R&D?
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Mattdcb
Try the leads on your kettle?
Does the coffee/tea taste any better?
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by Efraim roots:
These cable makers are making cables mostly for PCs, toasters or whatever so direction is not important to them.
But what about the direction of Snaic and NACA5, is that just imagination from Naim R&D?
Carrying signals is perhaps different. Don't forget that the sole purpose of the power lead is to feed massive power supplies that then deliver stable DC to the electronics. I simply can't see (or hear) how the directionality of the last 1m of copper can affect the resultant DC. I don't really doubt (OK, I do) that there are good and bad cables and plugs. But directionality of power cables? Nuh.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Mike-B
Right on maxbertola
Where ever the moulded plug end & cable part is made, & I don't doubt the MK or Crabtree is fitted in Salisbury, its still a moulded plug of "commercial quality" & the cable is bog standard PVC.
So - if sound differences can be heard in the standard Naim power leads - & I am NOT saying I agree it can, then maybe that is an indicator of variable quality.
Also - maybe - its why I can't hear any difference between my home built power cords (braided 2.5m 3 core PTFE insulated Martin Kaiser silver plated IEC plugs) & a Naim Powerline
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by abbydog
quote:
I have experimented with plenty of mains related cables, connections, switches, fuses and directionality over the years and the performances differences can be huge, bigger even than the signal side of things.
What, bigger even than the profit margins
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Steve2701
Can I just check and see that I am understandig this correctly.
You can discerne a difference between one .75mm 3 core pvc flex fitted with generic press fitted IEC plug and another fitted with a crabtree / MK or whatever in your country - and also tell the difference in directionality in it as well - even though it's an AC power cable?
I can't wait to see the next generation of EBAY adverts for the now different power leads :-
buy mine, it's from a chrome bumper 250, obviously well run in as its never been switched off and has had tons of current running through it. Obviously superior to one powering a 32 of the same vintage.
How are these tests supposed to be carried out re 'has anyone tried' Is anyone here going to say they have had a bake of where all they do is bring the powerleads from their kit of various vintages to try against each other? Imagine to confusion when they get back home or if they were just left in a heap on the floor? No one would know which was who's and which piece of kit it was supposed to belong to...
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Matteo
Klimo Power Chord with Naim Equipments?
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Don Phillips
This thread, like similar ones has gone on to be like the "does God exist" debate.
Some of us feel we have heard the different sound of different mains cables.
Others have auditioned cables and heard no difference.
Some who have heard a difference, do so against all logic, in spite of the contradiction of such technical knowledge as they have (I am in this group).
Some have heard a difference and can offer explanations.
I have never met anyone who can theoretically explain why cables sound different, but have never heard a difference. But then he would be like someone who knew God exists but does not believe in him. I think there may be a few Anglican ministers a bit like this though...
The above analysis applies to all sectors of the creed:
The MK-plugists,
The Wattgate-ites,
The screened cable sect,
The cable directionality brethren,
The far eastern sects (cable is good if it has a japanese sounding name printed on it),
The Sisters of Powerline,
And the highly persecuted, Cables-must-be-supported-on-holy-ceramic-pot Cult.
I hope the above perspective helps to promote tolerance and understanding amongst us all.
Don, overcast Downtown York
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Efraim roots
In a well tuned Naim HiFi you will hear the difference between different standard powercords. Find it for yourself and take your installation further. The differences is really fundamental! Also make sure the Live and Neutral is on right side.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Christopher_M
Thank you Don, I very much enjoyed the Sisters of Powerline.
!
Best wishes,
Chris
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Richard Dane
quote:
Originally posted by Steve2701:
...one .75mm 3 core pvc flex fitted with generic press fitted IEC plug and another fitted with a crabtree / MK or whatever..
Interesting point: I believe that Naim leads are usually specced at 1.0mm 3 core. I've only got UK issue Pirellis here so can't easily check on the European and other issues. Perhaps Steve H can help?
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by JYOW
I also noticed that both Naim and Linn use the same cables with the same markings and numberings on them, except Linn's cables are fitted with factory molded Volex plus on both the IEC and wall end, Vs Naim's more elaborate MK plugs.
A couple of mouths ago, I accidentally discovered a few dozen power cords completely identical to the Linn cords including all the numberings and markings and with the same Volex molded plugs on both ends.
It turned out that these are power cords that came standard with DELL computers. I brought a few home and made my own "Hydra" cable out of a Furutech Rhodium plugs.
I guess these cords are nothing special, there is no magic dust in them. The Naim plugs do have the decent MK plugs fitted. But other than that, I believe Naim just did not pay a lot of attention to power cords before the Powerline. They probably tried different cords and found these cords to do as good a job as other zip cords out there.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Steve2701
quote:
In a well tuned Naim HiFi you will hear the difference between different standard powercords. Find it for yourself and take your installation further. The differences is really fundamental! Also make sure the Live and Neutral is on right side.
I think you will find that one or two on here know just how to set up a system - indeed, on this forum it has been discussed to the minutest of detail, even what to put where, how much torque on nuts etc, you get the idea.
I have no doubt that you can hear these differences, but to be so obsessive that it (obviously) impinges on your enjoyment of a system is not so good.
Good luck in your quest.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by naimUnT
I have tried several stock power cords, including Naim's, and also the ultra expensive Acrolink 7N power cable, and Naim's Powerline (US and UK versions) over an extended period of about 5 months. In the end, Naim's Powerline (US version) sounded the best to my ears! While Naim's stock power cord was reasonably good and arguably the best of the bunch of stock power cords, the Powerline is supremely better - more weight, superb balance from HF to LF, and preservation of timing integrity. I have no idea why the US version sounded better than Naim's UK version but that was what my ears tell me. It could be that the US version does not have a fuse, or it could be because of the Oyaide power strip that fed the US version Powerline.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by rich46
[QUOTE]Originally posted by naimUnT:
I have tried several stock power cords, including Naim's, and also the ultra expensive Acrolink 7N power cable, and Naim's Powerline (US and UK versions) over an extended period of about 5 months. In the end, Naim's Powerline (US version) sounded the best to my ears! While Naim's stock power cord was reasonably good and arguably the best of the bunch of stock power cords, the Powerline is supremely better - more weight, superb balance from HF to LF, and preservation of timing integrity. I have no idea why the US version sounded better than Naim's UK version but that was what my ears tell me. It could be that the US version does not have a fuse, or it could be because of the Oyaide power strip that fed the US version Powerline.[/QUOTe
magic dust ???? mk plugs are electrically and mechanical will made, screen may rfi, if there is any present , keep cable short and keep clean ,replace fuse every so often. save youre money and buy more music and enjoy it a well constructed cable and plug is all that is need.. it supplies current at mains voltage to a transformer which suppies the electronic .
good marketing sells expensive cables
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Supernaim
What about the cable running from behind the socket? Your just moving the weaker link further up the chain, surely you would need this 'special' cable running right up to the fuse box to do justice to the idea of mains cables. Battery power is the only solution
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by cat345
Power cords are less important than connectors and wall sockets. Cheap hospital grade wall sockets provide a very firm contact with plugs and offer less resistance to current flow.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by jacques (JD12)
quote:
Originally posted by Efraim roots:
......
I also compared the 'I sheng' with a recent Linn standard cord called 'Tongyuan' on my Lingo2 and did not hear the same differences as on the amp, here the Tongyuan was simply better on everything, tunwize, PRAT and soundwize......
Hi I understand from this that you prefered the "Tongyuan" (Linn sourced)to the "I sheng" (Naim sourced)on the Lingo 2 but what did you prefer between these 2 power cords on Naim equipement ?
Jacques
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Massimo Bertola
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Dane:
Interesting point: I believe that Naim leads are usually specced at 1.0mm 3 core. I've only got UK issue Pirellis here so can't easily check on the European and other issues. Perhaps Steve H can help?
I have found both 0.75 and 1 mm. gauge cords in Naim equipment. I'd say, by memory, 1 mm in my Nap200, 0.75 in CDPs and perhaps even in my XPS2.
Anyway, this post - in all its bends and views - has made me feel horribly stupid with my worries for cables and now I want to sell everything and just keep listening to my Tivoli One.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by Efraim roots
jacques,
I did compare the Linn standard 'tongyuan' with Naim standard 'I sheng' on nap200/nac202. I hear that the 'tongyuan' is more emotive and musical, very good cable! The Naim supplied 'I sheng' is more clear, little cold and hardhitting rytmwize. Both are good! But Tongyuan is the better cable in a 'Tune dem', it sounds more right musically. I will try to get another of those, I need the one I got on the Lingo. The closer the source you are, the more difference.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by abbydog
Don't feel horribly stupid Max - its just that somewhere along the line during the credit boom a bunch of people tried to turn a hobby that is supposed to be about listing to music into one that involved playing with expensive bits of wire - out of greed, I guess.
Posted on: 26 January 2010 by dave simpson
The last thing I'd worry about would be why other folks are experimenting with wire. I'd say more power to them and hope they have a blast.
If you really need to worry about something consider Near Earth Objects, The Rapture or what those two vertical ridges running down from your nostrils to your upper lip are all about.
regards,
dave
