How long until we see high end HDX?

In case we see a HDS in the future I am sure it will work with a XPS2 or PS 555. I only heard HDX with XPS2 yet and this is already a fantastic player. I would love to hear it with a PS 555 I would give it a listen since only you can decide how good it is for you. I would not underestimate the HDX with a power supply.

John, I plan to listen to the HDX in the next couple of weeks. I would love to pass on my CDS3 whilst it is still not too old and whilst there is still a market for high end CD players. However, I am not willing to compromise on the replay qualities that I enjoy in the CDS3 so the HDX will have to be at least as good or it is a non starter. I suspect the latter but wonder for how long that might be the case.....

By the way, when you say HDS, do you mean that in the generic "hard disk system" way or are you thinking there could be an "S" version as opposed to the current "X" version?

Maybe we see a HD 555 and a HDS in the future. Linn has got three DS players and a Sneaky DS as a one box solution.

Merto, I think the comments on "HDX (+XPS2/555PS)" really apply to someone like you if you haven't gone there yet.

I think "S" referred to CD(S). I think Naim will produce the higher end HD (S or 555), but not both. It really doesn't make sense,IMO. Probably priced accordingly at $20-25K USD.

To reach this level probably need to separate the CD management part--ripping, storage, from the analogue/digital circuitry, and a separate powers supply. I'd be surprised if it didn't work with the current line-up. If it didn't everyone who's got CDS3/CD555 would need to trash their entire kit to get one. Somehow I'm sure Naim is aware of this.

Thanks for the comments Gary, I have been following the "HDX (+XPS2/555PS)" thread with interest but was hoping to look at things from a slightly different perspective here.

I hope it does follow that the power supplies remain compatible as that, to me is one of the advantages of Naim equipment; the incremental upgrade path.

As I mentioned, I will listen to the HDX soon and I, like you see this type of functionality as the way I want to take my system. I imagine we will see a full line up of of this type of product at some point but might Naim hold back on releasing a 555 beater so soon after its release? Is the technology anywhere near that point yet? The CDS3 has been around for a while now and I can see that level being pitched at in the mean time but I wonder when?

There is an NS REF music server planned - with the discs / psu in a seperate box so i'm not sure if this will sit as the reference HD source. Looks interesting anyway

James

Don't know, but the fly in the oinment is 24 bit playback. I would expect that the HDXNS devices was released to coincide with Naim ultimately releasing their music collection as 24 bit, both previously mastered recordings and those going forward. This, as I've personally heard, really ups the ante and comparisons to the CDPs becomes moot in many respects.

Good point James.

Let's hope they become more widely available.

quote:

There is an NS REF music server planned

the NS REF disappeared from the naim net site...but i guess it will be launched with the same idea. i could imagine that naim don´t want to loose control of the hard discs, as part of the whole sound reproduction. as i remember i read several times about the influence of the hard disc on the sound. i think the NS REF was planed as xps and hard disc ( hopefully much more capacity ) in the separate black box. it would be great , if the disc section would replay cd´s in the cds3 quality...and not just 5 x quality

but then. how much will the NS REF cost ? i remember something around 9000 GBP ?

Please excuse my ignorance....I have seen NS REF mentioned in a few threads but what exactly is it?

Well its dissapeared off the new Naimnet site - but it was the reference server - The server electronics and analogue stages in one box, the Power supply and disc units in the other box.

The Naim music catalogue should be online early next year (when i last spoke to Naim - should be good, some of the Linn 24/96 downloads sound fantastic and it takes the whole ripping question out of the equation).

James

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Merto:
The consensus seems to be that the current HDX is at or around the level of a CDX2.

After having listened to an HDX for a week, and compared it to my cd s3, I still think that a bare HDX is somewhere around x2, and the HDX with spx2 is as good and even slitely better than my s3.My dealer have said that the HDX was displayed on a Swedish hifi show not so long ago, with the 555 su, and that in this configuration it is close to or maybe even better than the 555. So Naim has more or less done this already. The really interesting question is, with the marked improvements over the summer going from HDX is about the Cd 5 or 5X level, to the situation now, what more can be done to improve HDX second version and also what will hhappen in the firmware upgrades. People who own the Linn DS report that firmware upgrades to the players effect the music quality.

Claus

could it be that a hdx is a sports car ?...

i mean it can go faster then 250km/h , but some just don´t want it to drive so fast ?

quote:

Originally posted by Claus-thoeg [Quote]

what more can be done to improve HDX second version and also what will hhappen in the firmware upgrades. People who own the Linn DS report that firmware upgrades to the players effect the music quality.

Claus

Interesting point as I was told that there is additional "tweaking" of firmware going on to improve the HDX, same as the DS players. The beauty of the development is that improvements can be made remotely via download.

Will be interesting if improvement comes with update allowing rip to NAS storage, which I am going to need fairly soon.

I think separating the disc management and audio components will have an effect due to decreased noise in the system, similar to the way the CDS3 and 555 are developed with separate transport. Don't know if using Solid State vs. HDD makes a diffeence--no moving parts. Who knows what else?

I would have though the ideal high end system would be in 3 boxes, not 2:
1. Power supply
2. CD & DAC (No mechanical noise on s/w playback)
3. HD &/or Solid state memory buffer to load (No mechanical noise from HD)

SSM could be in box 2 or 3.

Huw

quote:

Originally posted by HuwJ:
I would have though the ideal high end system would be in 3 boxes, not 2:
1. Power supply
2. CD & DAC (No mechanical noise on s/w playback)
3. HD &/or Solid state memory buffer to load (No mechanical noise from HD)

SSM could be in box 2 or 3.

Huw

Yes, this is what I meant. I didn't mention the power supply as the third box. But yes, take the NS REF concept and add the power supply as the third and there you go.

Might it be that if SS memory is used, there may be little or no benefit in seperating it from the DAC? Seperating the boxes may be more beneficial in the case of a HD due to the moving parts?

Maybe a silly question but I am just beginning to look into all this and to be honest, I never paid much attention to what was "in" a CDP, just how it sounded.

quote:

Originally posted by Merto:

Maybe a silly question but I am just beginning to look into all this and to be honest, I never paid much attention to what was "in" a CDP, just how it sounded.

That's all that matters now. The other stuff is just so much chaff intended to over-complicate the straight forward. It still boils down to your tunes in your system - how do the options compare? T'was ever thus.

Steve

quote:

That's all that matters now. The other stuff is just so much chaff intended to over-complicate the straight forward. It still boils down to your tunes in your system - how do the options compare? T'was ever thus.

Steve

totaly agree steve...all this efford to make things more complicated. i think M/L is neat enough.and for the price anyway. i would never buy myselve into the pc world and start to experiment with soundcards and so on.

i just pay attention to the rips...don´t want to rip 800 cd new in 4 years....

When people say the CDX2 is better than the HDX what are they comparing? Is it the CD playback of both or the HDX HDD?

Having listened to a bare HDX via a 282, SC2,250.2 there is no doubt that it blows away a CDX2 in musical performance when playing from its HDD.

If you want to improve its performance than as others have said add a power supply but then you are really pushing up the cost.

There are other combos, we know which one! that you can buy which is easily on a par with the HDX but IMHO is better. Get this and spend the difference on a better pre/power combo!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HuwJ:
I would have though the ideal high end system would be in 3 boxes, not 2:
1. Power supply
2. CD & DAC (No mechanical noise on s/w playback)
3. HD &/or Solid state memory buffer to load (No mechanical noise from HD)

SSM could be in box 2 or 3.

We know that Naim will support ripping to external storage with the HDX, so and since storage will always develop faster than highend audio, if I were at Naim I would work on taking the storage out of the equation, and maybe have a list of good sound nas and external drive sollutions. The list has to be made anyway when external ripping is enabled on the HDx.

Claus

To bring my original questions full circle, it seems to me that:

1. We may already have valid competition for high end CDPs but the technologies (in these applications) are young and nobody knows in what direction or how quickly things will progress.

2. There is a high probability of compatibility with current power supplies and future products (up to a point obviously).

With that in mind, I think I will add a 555PS to my CDS3 and hang on to it until the next couple of generations of source have been released. I would be more comfortable doing that than joining this "new revolution" too soon, only to find it is going in the wrong direction. I think I will wait for the technology and the market to mature and the appropriate pricing structure to evolve.

I guess I need to look at more shelves to get the CDs off the floor rather than being able to drop them all in the local charity shop!

quote:

Originally posted by HuwJ:
I would have though the ideal high end system would be in 3 boxes, not 2:
1. Power supply
2. CD & DAC (No mechanical noise on s/w playback)
3. HD &/or Solid state memory buffer to load (No mechanical noise from HD)

Hmmmm. sounds a lot like a PC with a Hicapped NDac.

Merto,

I agree with your assessments. I believe that it's never sensible to invest in new technologies (or new applications of them) near the start of their market life. I am surprised that so many people seem to have already abandoned their CDS3's, CD555's etc for the HDX or similar. I know there will always be those people to whom being at the cutting edge is important, and maybe I am overly conservative. I just have a sneeky suspicion that, perhaps in one years time or maybe two, there will be something on offer that makes the HDX look like a wax-cylinder phonograph!

Peter

Peter,

That reminds me of the old Rita Rudner gag "I'm not buying a CD player until I have it writing they won't improve it". She would still be waiting.

Steve

Steve,

Yes, I suppose I am conservative! Also I'd never consider joining any sort of club that would accept me as a member...!