SuperLine Loading Thread.

quote:

quote:Originally posted by Timbo

However with the advice I have I should be well into the ball park, I'll get my dealer to sort out a 453R and 470R when I get the Superline. Hopefully I won't need to venture any further.

Cheers

Tim


You shouldn't need to Tim, as I said on the previous page 453R would be my first choice but you may prefer the 470R with your Rega P9

KR

Peter

Much as I had thought then Tim - Good.

With the 453R the 17D3/P9 was just a little too up front and the more relaxed results with the 470R were more pleasing.

Kind regards,

Peter

Peter:

You certainly know your stuff. I thought I would have a hard job deciding which plug to use, so I just trusted my ears and it was easy!

Still can't get over how good the SuperNait is, however I do have a Supercap on it :-) 2009 will bring along a 252 and a 250 - can't wait.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Timbo:
Peter:
I just trusted my ears and it was easy!
Tim

That's all I do too.

Come on guys, is no one using a Benz Glider L with a Superline? I posted a while ago with no response, my new toy will arrive either today or Monday so give me a hand ...

Thanks,

Huw

After much experimentation with a Benz Micro Glider L, I am currently sitting on the fence between 560R + 1.0nF and 536R either bare or with just 0.476nF. There is considerable variance between these loadings and recordings used. Acoustic jazz seems to favour the 536R whereas more modern electric music seems to like the K load.

The interesting thing is that I used to use a Stageline S with the Glider and the combinations of 476 or 500 R and 5.6nF just sound dull.

576R might be the optimum load but it really is just a bit too tizzy in my very hard room, but there is a sense of the window just being that little more open but regrettably with a digital edge.

Bizarrely, very old Blue Note recordings seem to favour 220R with no cap.

I now feel ready to establish whether all the noise about the Aro Keel is justified. Fingers crossed re health and bonus fairy.

Huw

P.S. thanks to the guru of Leicester for his support with the plugs

quote:

I now feel ready to establish whether all the noise about the Aro Keel is justified

I do hope you find the Aro Keel to be as good as already stated Huwge and I hope we won't have wasted any of your time. It's about time it's tested properly by someone respected like yourself.

Now since the Sondek has been moved to the main system with the Briks, the Miyabi/47 is better suited with a 1k plug. And I still prefer plugging it into the Capacitive DIN socket over the Resistive socket.

A 220R works in terms of giving out a sweeter midrange and was fine with a bass limiting WATT6, but losing control on the low end on the full range Briks.

The Audio-Technica AT33-PTH has a rated impedance of only 20 Ohms (like the AT OC-9) and unsurprisingly works best with the minimum value 100Ohm supplied with the Superline. I did not find any benefits when trying to reduce input impedance below 100 Ohms, by adding more resistance in parallel.
The capacitance loading plugs made far less difference than swapping arm leads. I am currently running an Audio Origami arm lead with no capacitance plug.

I have found my Ortofon Rohmann cartridge to be unsuccessful with the SME/Supeline combnation, sounding dead and lifeless with all loading options.

All my other cartridges are moving magnet, so not relevant here, but thankfully are catered for by my Sugden Masterclass phono-stage.
I use moving-magnets in one system because they can sound bloody good, and I live in a house where one of my TTs is at the mercy of yoofs when I am not around. Replacement styli can be a godsend.

Using a none Radikaled LP12SE/Akiva/SL/SC/Hi

I settled early on 576R and have not auditioned resistance anymore.
But I have been constantly gong back and forth using 1nF and 470pF.

470pF shows more transparency and air on the other hand 1nF has a fuller and more natural body.

I was undecided which one permanently to use. Most of the time it has been 470pF being present.

Yesterday I introduced a pair of Airplugs to the game.
I can absolutely not understand why Naim is not offering them as part of the product, or at least as an after sales option! Chopping a HiLine leaves one with very mixed emotions and is by far not the most cost effective way of achieving this. I asked for it the official way using my dealer and the distribution. Someone on the way up to Naim nodded his head and said it would not be worth the effort.

I have to disagree with you, it is. Saying this you should audition this by yourself!

Being back on 576R/1nF having the body and flow and the Airplug which does exactly what it says on the tin.

Martin

I would be keen to get a demo of the famous airplug but how?

And Naim as an optional cutomisation fit it may fend off the competition from north of the border?



Richard

Richard,

that is exactly what I am asking for. Chopping HiLines is not the best way to provide a demo. And as I understod Naim is not keen on having us to experiment and DYI on the bits of kit.

Martin

I am still with a 590R/No Cap with the Akiva. (on a non Cirkused AROed LP12.) And plugging in a resistive plug on a capacitive DIN socket still gives a tad better clarity and dynamics.

quote:

Originally posted by Miller:
Chopping a HiLine leaves one with very mixed emotions and is by far not the most cost effective way of achieving this. I asked for it the official way using my dealer and the distribution. Someone on the way up to Naim nodded his head and said it would not be worth the effort.

I have to disagree with you, it is. Saying this you should audition this by yourself!

Being back on 576R/1nF having the body and flow and the Airplug which does exactly what it says on the tin.

Martin

Yes it does leave mixed emotions, as it seems like a complete waste of a bloody good lead. Not to mention a considerable amount of time in putting it all together - Oh, to be able to order it off the peg so to speak! However, as things stand currently, this is the only way of getting hold of an Air loading plug.

quote:

Someone on the way up to Naim nodded his head and said it would not be worth the effort.

Whoever said this is wrong IMHO, I agree with you.

Another problem is, while we are all making these things up DIY style, there is bound to be variations in quality due to how much freedom/decoupling the "builder" can achieve within the plug. Practise certainly helps here for sure.

KR

Peter

Peter,

even if I might not have hit the absolute maximum achievable. I am so delighted with the results. It is a so enjoyable move from the standard plug, which made me even more wondering about the obvious reluctance. Are they going to reveal a 500 version of the SuperLine? If not I am absolutely not able understand that...

Martin

It will be interesting to see if the Linn Urika has any impact on Naim Superline sales especialy if it out performs a SL on a Linn'ed LP12.

Also as to whether existing SL owners move across to the Urika.

As if the 'airplug' is so good it may out perform the Urika, hence stem the tide and the loss of business making it commercial sense for Naim to produce even if as a customisation service at a premium?

Or even for someone to set up a small business making them?

I wonder what sort of price would be viable assuming the parts can be sourced without having to cut up a Hiline?

But I am just speculating as I have never heard the 'airplug' nor a Urika v SL comparison for that matter!

Richard

Making a small business out of it would require to get hold of Airplug only. IMHO even at distribution level (see PowerIgel Plus) it would not make everyone pleased if you have to cannibalize HiLines. This will be up to the manufacturer itself and it will be the customers raising demand. They do own the complete channel so even restricting Airplug sales to existing SL owners could we a valid model...

Martin

The air plug gives an obvious improvement and I'll be not surprised, if it makes the SL more competitive against the Urika. I'm surprised that naim are still too quiet about this matter. One problem is that the air plug is sold expensive and a set of air plugs would increase the price. What is better: to order an air plug (or two) with the preferred R+C or send the SL for changing R+C inside like prefix and Urika? And which one sounds better?

quote:

Originally posted by Emil F.:
....... What is better: to order an air plug (or two) with the preferred R+C or send the SL for changing R+C inside like prefix and Urika? And which one sounds better?

Now there is an idea...especialy if your Naim dealer can do it for you with the approval of Naim.

So Naim and Naim Trade Members what do you think?

Richard

IMHO Naim has to start supporting it not the dealer not the distribution.

From my point of view there are just some explanations like:

- They do not think it is worth it.
- They ignore the customers asking for it.
- They have a product to be raveled including this option.

Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Olsen:
Now there is an idea...especialy if your Naim dealer can do it for you with the approval of Naim.
So Naim and Naim Trade Members what do you think?
Richard

Richard, I have been trying to obtain Airplugs un-attached so to speak for about a year - It ain't going to happen IMHO

So the only other hope is maybe a limited number of load values could be made available by HQ?

Pre-defined loads (internal) from the factory?

Personally, I think Naim have bigger fish to fry at present and are just too busy.

Solution/Options!

Club together with a friend and go to your local dealer/soldering specialist, buy a new Hi-Line Din-Din and ask him to do it for you.

Peter

The wait for this elusive Airplug has become extremely tedious. I've heard it and like it.

So Naim, can you take fifteen minutes to solder a couple of resistors to one of those plastic bodies and sell it to me via a dealer as part of customer service? I would like you to match the 453r resistors and you to do the soldering. It doesn't need 8 months research and I take responsibility for it sounding garbage. I'm not suggesting it's an official Naim product.

£150 a fair price?

From what I'm reading, you have a big competitor on the market now.

Has anyone done the "nude" resistors and pins vs airplug ?

I've asked before but can't remember if it was answered.

Ok BigH, no worries - Airplug is considerably better IMHO - Better de-coupling I believe.

Kind regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:


....Solution/Options!

Club together with a friend and go to your local dealer/soldering specialist, buy a new Hi-Line Din-Din and ask him to do it for you.

Peter

Peter,

That may be what I will have to do and sell any remaining bits on some famous on line auction site!

One question, is the "airpug" for the R or nF plug or for both?

For example if I currently use 576R and 1nF do I need two airplugs one for the 576R and one for 1nF?

I will also have a chat with The SORG about it all.

Thanks for your honest opinions.

Kind regards,

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Olsen:
One question, is the "airpug" for the R or nF plug or for both?
For example if I currently use 576R and 1nF do I need two airplugs one for the 576R and one for 1nF?
Richard

I make that both ends of a Hi-Line then Richard.

Emil may well comment here as he used two Airplugs on his Superline. Most other users I know are Dynavector owners and therefore only need one.

KR

Peter