SuperLine Loading Thread.

Today I have tried out the 560R load plug + 1nF.
No, it doesn't work for me. The 500R + 1nF is better for my Linn Akiva.

Ulrich

Ulrich,

What were the difference between 500 and 560R sonically?

quote:

What were the difference between 500 and 560R sonically?

Kuma, the 560R put the Akiva under stress: simultaneous with the load tones I hear the soft tones less clear.

Ulrich,

What is the arm and table used on the Akiva?

Akiva, Aro, Nottingham Dias, Superline, 552, 500, DBLs

Psst...munch.

Inner voice... inner voice...

quote:

Do you like the Nottingham?
That IMO needs a better sounding TT.

Vibrations are lethal for a turntable - especially for a mass table. I have reduced the vibrations in five steps, each step was audible:

1) The hifi goes into the basement with less vibrations of the floor.
2) Under the bearing chassis are now five bags of sand. Nearly the whole wight
of the turntable (38kg) is lying on that bags.
3) Under the armboard the same procedure.
4) The motor was fixed onto the back wall, 3,5mm higher so that the motor feeds
has no contact with the table.
5) The vibrations of the motor itself were absorb by sand so that less vibrations
go via belt to the turntable.

Already after step 1 the Dias was better than my previous table - not to compare after step 5. It was impossible to do the steps 2-5 with the previous table.


Ulrich

Connon from Tune HiFi came by last night with, ahem, my Superline We didn't have the 470R plug yet but we did go back and forth with the 500R and 1nF on my XX2.mkii and his XV-1s. On the XX2.mkii I preferred having the cap 1nF plug in. I think it widened the presentation nicely, without adding too much twinkly hifi effect -- although it does add some.

On the XV-1S it was was pretty clear that loading without the 1nF plug, or any other capacitance, was the way to go. And btw, what an AMAZING cartridge the XV-1S is. I begged Connon not to bring a DR. T into my home but, being a ruthless man, he did anyway.

To quote Jon Honeyball's superb affectation of the American suburban vernacular:

Oh.

My.

Gawd.

And to it I'll add:

You won't need a knife for that hon, it's like buttah.


daniel

Best loading so far (thanks Todd) is the 500R plug only.

Cartridge: ZYX R-100 FX Fuji
Superline (powered by supercap via burndy & 4 to 5 pin hi-line).

I’m still working on it,

Brian


Thank you, Codell Audio and Dimexs for the opportunity to test this thing out.

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
Personal taste may well play a part in deciding which loading value is best for some Superline owners (we may well also find that preferred loading also varies depending on which turntable/arm combo is being used, as well as cartridge. Or possibly whether the system being used is olive or not as the initial post on this thread refers), and I do adopt to some degree, a bespoke approach to system set-up - It works for me . However, if we can offer at least a rough guide for members who maybe for the reason of distance, don't have the opportunity to experiment with their dealer, then that has to be a good thing and I'll be satisfied with that.

Peter,

To avoid hi-jacking the 'Best turntable for Olive' thread, I have cut and pasted your quote in the this thread.

I agree that any Forum consensus on Superline loading choice is a starting point. As cable, it's so easy to use different plugs for a system tone control.

And I would imagine that as some users start to experiment with different caps and resistors, not to mention, as you stated, soldering variations ( both the technique and solder itself ), the results may vary.

BTW, have you tested the XV1s on other table/arm yet?
If so, have the same loading on the Sondek worked on other non-Linn tables/arms?

Another thing which arose at Tony's yesterday -- his ARO has an arm lead terminated in <hawk spit> phono plugs. My Aro lead is terminated in BNCs, a far superior plug.

The best loading plug for a cartridge will undoubtably be affected by the arm lead and hence the terminating plug on said arm lead.

I suggest everyone defines their cabling a little more precisely when recommending loading factors for specific cartridges, and include the plug termination information too.

Yes, abolutely right Jon. The BNC vs phono could make a difference.

My Akiva on LP12SE with T-kable uses the Naim preferred BNC connection as "strongly" advised by Jason at one of the Heathrow shows. My preference is still 560+1 but I am keen to try other resistance value plugs which I will make up myself when I get the opportunity (and advise on sourcing!)

Yesterday, when up at Tonys we did a brief comparison between 470 and 500 (with TKRua). I shall leave Tony to elaborate on his feelings when he has time. It certainly was not a consensus of opinion though. I think that the TKRua is a whole different ballgame to your XV1s as far as loading is concerned.

J

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

To avoid hi-jacking the 'Best turntable for Olive' thread, I have cut and pasted your quote in the this thread.

I agree that any Forum consensus on Superline loading choice is a starting point. As cable, it's so easy to use different plugs for a system tone control.

And I would imagine that as some users start to experiment with different caps and resistors, not to mention, as you stated, soldering variations ( both the technique and solder itself ), the results may vary.

BTW, have you tested the XV1s on other table/arm yet?
If so, have the same loading on the Sondek worked on other non-Linn tables/arms?

Several points here: The point you have quoted was responding to and discussing Norman's comments. You are very right about loadings being used as a tone control and this is very much NOT the way to go. Everything needs to be judged musically and I'm certain from a personal point of view I will end up with a single value for each cartridge/arm combination.

I am currently investigating various things which may or may not affect the load plug's performance including different brands of resistor of the same value! This is R.I.P. (Research in progress)

I will report in due course after I've heard Geoffs Gorby/SME/XV1-s combo. FYI I have also heard the Well Tempered Amadeus/XV1-s, but there was not enough time to experiment as John Burns of Dynavector had to leave in order to get to see Alastair of Signals!

Regarding the use of BNC's with the Superline. All my installations so far have been terminated BNC regardless of arm Ekos or Aro. I'll get round to experimenting on the effects of different termination on say a Linn Ekos arm with a Superline in due course, but for the moment it's a low priority as I'd prefer to trust consensus here and use the BNC even if it is a bit of a faf to attach it to a BNC plug.

Kind regards,

Peter

Koetsu – Urushi Gold into Naim Superline

Best results (so far) 500R & 1nf (will review again in six months)

System:

Recently purchased Linn Sondek LP-12 with Naim Aro, Naim Armageddon, Linn Trampolin2.

Superline + Supercap2 + SNAXO/Superline Burndy + HiLine 4-5-pin Interconnect (all new)

Naim NAC-552/552PS, CD555/555PS, NAT-02, NAP-500/500PS, SL2 Loudspeakers, triple Naim Fraim, all electronics running quite long enough to qualify as burnt in & warmed up.

This Superline has now been running for 3 – 4 weeks, the immediate lift in performance when first installed (replacing Prefix) was astonishing and a further substantial improvement in performance was noticed during week 3.

It would have to be said that this system sounded fantastic before the Superline was added, after however, there was even more insight into the craftsmanship of the musicians and a 3-D sound staging was quite breathtaking, the latter being something I have noticed on the many Superline’s we have now installed as we work through the back-orders, I suspect having them in stock is wishful thinking but perhaps in a week or two.

Hope that’s helpful, what a great idea this thread is.

Warmest regards

Norman
Partner - UHES

Which arm lead, norman? Thanks.

quote:

Which arm lead, norman? Thanks.

Hi John

The original lead supplied with the Aro, happily still safely in the box.

Regards,

Norman
Partner - UHES

quote:

Norman,
I dont think any one will be hanging on for six months while you do your testing.

Hi Munch

FYI, as posted in another thread, we are also working extremely hard on various loadings with the Superline and as I stated their Ian is an electronics engineer and has no difficulty whatsoever with calculating the values and making up many alternatives and along with a few others we feed this information back to Naim.

The decision to review this particular customers components in six months was a way forward agreed by us with him. He being a long standing Naim customer over some years has experienced his 552, CD555 etc change (for the better) over months and having now found values that makes the combination sound spectacular we all felt that a review in six months once things have settled down would be ideal.

Normally I would be somewhat at a loss to understand how anyone might conclude from my post that my customers would have to wait 6 months for the appropriate loading for a newly acquired Superline but in your case I think, along with numerous other forum members there is little doubt why you did.

quote:

As you have said many times before you are not in this game to make money.
Kind Regards Munch.

I am not sure what this has to do with anything, and I hope you are not suggesting any of the dealers working in the public domain, alongside Naim on this project are doing so in order to make a fast buck.

Regards,

Norman
Partner - UHES

quote:

Originally posted by Julian H:
Yes, abolutely right Jon. The BNC vs phono could make a difference.

My Akiva on LP12SE with T-kable uses the Naim preferred BNC connection as "strongly" advised by Jason at one of the Heathrow shows. My preference is still 560+1 but I am keen to try other resistance value plugs which I will make up myself when I get the opportunity (and advise on sourcing!)

Yesterday, when up at Tonys we did a brief comparison between 470 and 500 (with TKRua). I shall leave Tony to elaborate on his feelings when he has time. It certainly was not a consensus of opinion though. I think that the TKRua is a whole different ballgame to your XV1s as far as loading is concerned.

J

Sorry Julian, I haven't really had time to do much in the way of comparisons yet, but after listening some more this morning I'm very much favouring the 470R over the 500R. The difference is actually quite subtle, reinforcing your point that the TK Rua's got significantly different requirements than the XV1s.

I did try the 500R with the 1nF capacitance plug, but very quickly removed it!

The 470R has a bit more detail and is smoother - perhaps not quite so exciting as the 500. My dreadful(!) phono plugs are probably a factor here.

On the latter point, for logistical reasons I could certainly do with a longer arm lead (terminated in BNC plugs to keep my friend Mr Honeyball happy !) Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Hi Tony

I would not extend your arm lead unless absolutely necessary. Why not wait until you have an idea about the revised positioning of your kit before doing anything drastic?

If need be though, I'm sure Naim would make a special for you. I understand the ARO arm cable is one of the best you can get.

Best wishes, Julian

Yes, dont fiddle with the leads until the new layout is confirmed. I'm sure Naim could make up a slightly longer Aro arm cable, but be warned that you dont want it too much longer.

<psst, wanna borrow a 453 ohm? :-) >

Maybe...

quote:

Originally posted by Rodborough:

quote:

Which arm lead, norman? Thanks.

Hi John

The original lead supplied with the Aro, happily still safely in the box.

Regards,

Norman
Partner - UHES

Norman,

For your test, did you use BNC aro lead or phono aro lead?

quote:

Norman,

For your test, did you use BNC aro lead or phono aro lead?

Hi Jon

We decided very early on that the BNC was the way to go and where necessary we fit them, we made sure the issue was not dirty connections or poor soldering and found that all things being equal the BNC input on the Superline performed best, as an additional note BNC to phono adaptors should be avoided in my view and RCA terminated leads should be re-terminated with BNC.

I see that you are in Suffolk, my home county, and I plan to be spending a few days at my Suffolk home in July (air show on the Lowestoft seafront) and it would be great to once again meet some of the local forum members and this time try and fit in a visit to Signals. It would for sure be great to get together with JN & Michael again.

Thanks very much too for your input on the Superline loading it has made fascinating reading.

Warmest regards

Norman
Partner - UHES

You are, of course, most welcome.

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:
....<psst, wanna borrow a 453 ohm? :-) >

I had a night with the 453 ohm and liked it very much. This was w/ the TK Rua.

Although, with my speakers, Kudos C20s and their Seas Crescendo tweeters sometimes the top-end does need taming. On recordings with lot's of close-miked drum-kits, prominent brush and cymbal work etc (especially, on this particular night, Rickie Lee Jones "the Evening of my Best Day") the clarity of that Seas tweeter can be a bit unrelenting, and the 453R seemed to emphasize that too much.

This was balanced somewhat by the addition of the 1nF, the 1nF having the effect of moderating some of that treble response, and bringing a little warmth and fulness to the presentation. But then I did feel like I was using the loading as more of a tone control -- and while the tone was more balanced the tune was not.

Connon took the 453 ohm with him, and left me with the 470 ohm to play with. With the TKR I find this to be a more optimal loading. I find I like it with the 1nF capacitance fitted as well. I do not have the heavier counterweight fitted to my ARO which, with the TKRua is so highly recommended by Dr. Peter, and maybe that is why the added fulness of the 470R w/ 1nF works better for me.

dn'l