The Hugo of streaming?

Lanmark CAT7A
My friend bought a half mile of Lanmark 7A SFTP Nexans Cable cheap via the bay, from someone in the oil industry who was using it on oil rigs. This is seriously meaty stuff and built for VERY high bandwidths. To enable this it uses special connectors, GG45. The scheme is designed to reduce crosstalk. The GG45 connectors split the cables as far as possible and so although the connector can be wired a la RJ45 it also has new connectors at the bottom to increase the space between the cables. From our POV we need to be able to connect these beefy cables into a standard RJ45, and the female connectors allow for this.

We looked at wiring this cable into a standard male RJ45. However, the wires are just too wide. I did think about wiring it just for the DC wires, but my friend believes has a Lanmark 7A patch lead wired in standard 8-pin which he will lend me to test wrt the PoE experiments.

I am looking at getting a GG45 crimping set as there will be enough cable left over for me to wire my house, I last wired my house in the early '90s. This should cover me for the rest of my life.

Some links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXr91BlM7U4
https://www.nexans.co.uk/eserv...6872/LANmark_7A.html
http://www.nexans.co.uk/eservi..._GG45_Connector.html
Pinouts = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Brilliant posted:

Hi M,

Interesting CAT7 usage-obviously has good EMI shielding. The 2 twisted pairs of( 22AWG?) PoE should be sufficient for the LPS and could  be soldered directly to the DC connectors (with some care).

B

Hi Brilliant,

Yes, EMI/RFI has been part of the discussion elsewhere, and doesn't feel logically correct, adding cable and improving EMI/RFI?

..

M

Right you are - it is a bit of a puzzle from the EMI side as the end cables are still in play.

Thanks for the info.

FYI I’m using a meter of bare Supra CAT8 with dc barrel screw connectors, all four pairs in use, between my  microRendu and LPS-1 and the sound is glorious. Wasn’t that impressed by the cheap cable and poE adapter, but this is on another level. Really really good compared to my nice Canare dc starquad with oyaide connectors. Just blows it out of the water. 

Hi Charles,

Yes, you got quoted elsewhere. Glad its working in a modified form for you.

M

charlesphoto posted:

FYI I’m using a meter of bare Supra CAT8 with dc barrel screw connectors, all four pairs in use, between my  microRendu and LPS-1 and the sound is glorious. Wasn’t that impressed by the cheap cable and poE adapter, but this is on another level. Really really good compared to my nice Canare dc starquad with oyaide connectors. Just blows it out of the water. 

CP - thanks for your posts. I have tried a foot of that. Add me to the pleasantly surprised. In my setup (LPS-1.2>ultraRendu) it appears that there is a reduction of the noise floor. Playing through the DAC-V1, the first thing I noticed was an apparent loudness increase and general clarity. Then there is the more natural 'flow' of the music- an even more relaxed experience than my custom cable. I guess even with a low powered device such as the rendu there is still enough current fluctuation for a cable configuration to exert influence! It is fascinating, kudos to whoever conjured CAT7/8 up as a DC cable.

B.

Powering the microRendu

I’ve now had my microRendu(mR) for a couple of months and really enjoy the sound quality lift it’s given to my system.

Initially I was powering it with the stock 7.5v Meanwell SMPS but quickly upgraded to an iFi iPower 9v which is the recommended option over the Meanwell. It’s well known power supplies can have a positive impact on sound quality and decided to look into the available options.

Having ultimately discounted cheap, although maybe value for money, Chinese manufactured items the Uptone LPS-1, now superseded by the LPS-1.2, was the obvious first choice but I wanted to investigate other options particularly as I favoured a single box, mains powered, solution and +UK£400 seemed a lot of money for a power supply given the iFi iPower is VGVFM.

To cut a long story short, for me, it came down to either a Teddy Pardo 7v or a CIAudio VDC.7 MKII which are both recommended by Sonore for powering the mR. In the end I went for the CIAudio which I imported from Swedish, for EUR349 inc. postage, as there isn’t a dealer in the UK.

The CIAudio is a very neat unit, smaller in size than most other LPSs, excluding Uptone’s. It has a very low noise floor, in the order of a few µV’s. Most importantly it has given a further lift to the system sound quality. There is less sibilance in voices, especially female singers such as Stacey Kent. Also improved stereo imaging, greater detail and emotional involvement with the music.

You could say I’m a very happy bunny.

Dave

Brilliant posted:

charlesphoto posted:

FYI I’m using a meter of bare Supra CAT8 with dc barrel screw connectors, all four pairs in use, between my  microRendu and LPS-1 and the sound is glorious. Wasn’t that impressed by the cheap cable and poE adapter, but this is on another level. Really really good compared to my nice Canare dc starquad with oyaide connectors. Just blows it out of the water. 

CP - thanks for your posts. I have tried a foot of that. Add me to the pleasantly surprised. In my setup (LPS-1.2>ultraRendu) it appears that there is a reduction of the noise floor. Playing through the DAC-V1, the first thing I noticed was an apparent loudness increase and general clarity. Then there is the more natural 'flow' of the music- an even more relaxed experience than my custom cable. I guess even with a low powered device such as the rendu there is still enough current fluctuation for a cable configuration to exert influence! It is fascinating, kudos to whoever conjured CAT7/8 up as a DC cable.

B.

I think the kudos goes to Rob who has instigated a number of ideas - but happy to be corrected.

I agree with your observations.

I think it would be worth playing with a longer length of cable, say 1 meter - be interested in what you hear.

M

Hi Dave,

I wouldn't discount a Chinese R-Core LPSU. The extra current over the 1.1A of the LPS-1 (and I believe 1.2) makes a difference; as long as you are willing to make up an LT3045 or two; I use two to power my ultraRendu. I have an LPS-1 gathering dust.

I would encourage you to try the PoE tweak. From what I have read with the LPS-1 you need to use the Supra CAT8 as mentioned above. Really this tweak needs to be heard.

Which version of the Vortexbox OS are you using?

M

Raspberry Pi 3 -vs- Vortexbox Audiostore Prestige 2

Thinking that the weak point of my system was probably the Raspberry Pi 3 I was using to run Logitech Media Server (LMS) I started looking at various server based solutions, including NUCs and building my own.

As a part of my research I looked at the Small Green Computers SonicTransporter. Vortexbox UK sell there own version called the Audiostore Prestige 2:
https://www.vortexbox.co.uk/Audiostore_ ... 32231.aspx

This together with an SBooster 19v LPSU were installed in my system.

Well there is no doubt that the sound quality was better, and the last remnant of sibilance was banished/much reduced .....BUT, these boxes run their own linux based OS and, as I have just found out, only allow you to mount ONE USB device. So I can see all four 512GB USB sticks on the StarTech ...but, only mount ONE.

I had Qobuz, one USB stick and my Synology NAS set up; .......and, The Prestige had a 1TB SSD onboard.

Is there any difference between the NAS, SSD and the StarTech hosted files? YES.

The StarTech were the most detailed and dynamic .....but this could act against them. SSD was not far behind with the NAS slightly less forthcoming.

If I could get onto the box via SSH I could solve the issue on about two minutes! And, I pretty soon COULD do that ....as I bricked the Prestige 2.

Using the Prestige's interface I updated it, but it showed OS 2.6 was available but reported 2.5 running; so I did a quick search and found a URL to point at - DON'T DO THIS. In the event it updated and sounded a bit better.

The following morning I powered the Prestige down then rebooted it .....and it was dead. Turns out the 2.6 is for sonicTransporters, not Audiostores!

Vortexbox are going to help me get back on track but in the meantime I thought I would have some fun, and so ......

1. I loaded Ubuntu 18.04
Just needed to create a boot USB. This was a minimal install. I then:

1. Loaded LMS;
2. Turned off every service I could; and then
3. Tuned the OS using: https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration.

This tuning script / page is really aimed at people using Linux for audio applications rather than audiophile ones, but it is interesting as a learning tool.

Two days of tuning later and I would say it was probably no better than using the Raspberry Pi. Some things were better, but very much swings and roundabouts.

so,

2. Vortexbox 2.4

Open source version of what is used on sonictransporters. Download the image, create a boot USB and follow instructions:

https://wiki.vortexbox.org/available_images

Set up LMS and .....MUCH better. Pretty old (2015).

The system is built on Fedora and uses dnf for updates. Using this you can get the system up to 2.5, which is what I am currently running:

https://www.vortexbox.org/foru...ases?p=1433#post1433

Even better. In fact running local files from the StarTech was getting me nearly on par with the best of the Audiostore with Qobuz.

Also, with either of these solutions I could SSH into the box and mount all four USB sticks.


Listening to my system through this system is excellent, and difficult to describe. I THOUGHT I had good separation, resolution and dynamics. The change this has bought, which is undoubtedly built on the rest of the chain, is subtle but pervasive. The soundfield is laid out in front of me and singers and instruments are simply there; I don't mean in the room, although the verisimilitude can be excellent if the recording is, but that the tracks laid down are just open and present to be inspected. Crescendos build and get physically louder. Unless you have heard it these are just words, and I had thought things were excellent, well now they are simply better.

Edge:
My perennial bugbear. Solved? No, not completely .....for some files. The proper Audiostore Prestige OS was better at this, and so will be reloaded once version 2.6 is available.

Some problem files (Pop/Rock) are simply that in my system. I won't forget them, but I am enjoying everything else a lot. Time to just get on listening.

I cannot recommend Martin and Vortexbox UK highly enough.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi Dave,

I wouldn't discount a Chinese R-Core LPSU. The extra current over the 1.1A of the LPS-1 (and I believe 1.2) makes a difference; as long as you are willing to make up an LT3045 or two; I use two to power my ultraRendu. I have an LPS-1 gathering dust.

Had I found a good, resonably priced, LPS-1 I may well have bought it but, having said that, I'm very happy with the CIAudio VDC.7. A plus is it has a mains on/off switch which I believe the LPS-1.2 has.

I did consider a Chinese R-Core LPSU but was put off by having to import from Hong Kong or China. Sweden seemed a safer option.

I would encourage you to try the PoE tweak. From what I have read with the LPS-1 you need to use the Supra CAT8 as mentioned above. Really this tweak needs to be heard.

Is the Supra CAT8 cable available bare, i.e. without connectors, and in short lengths, e.g. 1metre?

Which version of the Vortexbox OS are you using?

I have Vortexbox Nova 2.5 installed.

re: Martin at the Audiostore/Vortexbox, I couldn't agree more. He's been extremely helpful to me. He has suggested the Audiostore Prestige 2 to me but it's probably more than I need. I'm looking at options for upgrading my Microserver 2 though.

Dave

I did consider a Chinese R-Core LPSU but was put off by having to import from Hong Kong or China. Sweden seemed a safer option.

Understood.

Is the Supra CAT8 cable available bare, i.e. without connectors, and in short lengths, e.g. 1metre?

I have read of people buying it on ebay ...I haven't found it to date. Please let me know if you do.

I have Vortexbox Nova 2.5 installed.

That was what I had loaded on my Prestige. Very good.

Supra CAT8 available unterminated by the meter. Funny thing is, I ordered a meter off ebay, and it turns out the distributer selling them lives close by so dropped it off on my porch two hours later. Dangerous, as I like their products....

Hi Charles,

It is on .com; not .co.uk.

But, it appears to be free international shipping.

I am very tempted, esp. as I would like to compare it to the Lanmark7A I have lying around.

OK, you've sold me; two ordered.

I'll be b****y impressed if he calls at my house tonight with the cables!

M

For international orders you need to buy a minimum of four.

Mr Underhill posted:

Brilliant posted:

charlesphoto posted:

FYI I’m using a meter of bare Supra CAT8 with dc barrel screw connectors, all four pairs in use, between my  microRendu and LPS-1 and the sound is glorious. Wasn’t that impressed by the cheap cable and poE adapter, but this is on another level. Really really good compared to my nice Canare dc starquad with oyaide connectors. Just blows it out of the water. 

CP - thanks for your posts. I have tried a foot of that. Add me to the pleasantly surprised. In my setup (LPS-1.2>ultraRendu) it appears that there is a reduction of the noise floor. Playing through the DAC-V1, the first thing I noticed was an apparent loudness increase and general clarity. Then there is the more natural 'flow' of the music- an even more relaxed experience than my custom cable. I guess even with a low powered device such as the rendu there is still enough current fluctuation for a cable configuration to exert influence! It is fascinating, kudos to whoever conjured CAT7/8 up as a DC cable.

B.

I think the kudos goes to Rob who has instigated a number of ideas - but happy to be corrected.

I agree with your observations.

I think it would be worth playing with a longer length of cable, say 1 meter - be interested in what you hear.

M

Hi M,

I did make up a 1 meter version. I think I hear slightly better timbrel definition -thank you. I also have a UGREEN flat CAT7 3ft long, using all the twisted pairs for power. That also is excellent (edges the Supra in some areas, but lesser in others). I guess they are acting as filters of sorts.

ATB.

B.

Hi B,

Great.

In tests elsewhere: Ibra >= Ugreen >>> Amazon basics.

Although the amazon was the most robustly made. Some have conjectured that the differences are down to the number of twists. Goodness knows!

Like you I think of it as a filter.

M

Hi Brilliant,

Interesting setup. Did you try connecting the ultraRendu to the switch and using the IR between the uR and the DAC? What were the differences?

M

Hi M,

Yes I have tried the uR directly from the switch. The SQ is close in a lot of ways. If I did not try the 'PC ethernet bridge' tweak I would have been happy with it. The bridged setup is better. The sound stage is more in focus, the 'space' around instruments  clearer, the timbres more easily heard. Just  "cleaner and clearer" but in a wow kind of way!

I normally use the IR after the mR in another setup where it really works a treat for a smoother presentation. In contrast, my previous attempts using it that way with the uR did not provide any benefits I could perceive, if anything I thought it got in the way!

A now simpler and better SQ setup with the IR/uR;

I had the Paul Pang V2 USB PCIe hub in the setup prior to this one.It  was externally powered by an LPS and provided the 'clean USB and isolation' for the Anker unit. The Iso Regen replaces it but directly plugs into the motherboard USB port! An additional benefit is that the IR shares the 'cleaner' LPS-1.2 power with the uR, and all in all I think it is better at what it does.  All the good uR stuff is just that more obvious now but in a really more natural way= continuous hours of music without stressing. Additionally the deep bass extension seemed somewhat less with the PPV2 but appears to be fully restored now!

The use of the Paul Hynes SR4 LPS to charge the LPS-1.2 may appear as overkill at first glance, till you try to take it out, and you notice  'glare' creeping back with the other units! It stays put for now.

Happy listening!

ATB

B.

Interesting, thx.

Hello all,

I thought I'd bump my favorite thread with an update on my recent travels in computer audio. I replaced my Sonore microRendu and Uptone Audio LPS-1 with an ultraRendu and Uptone LPS-1.2 and found that both the uR and the 1.2 had similar effects in my system: each one added a greater sense of body and weight to whatever's playing. (Usually internet radio -- so shoot me!) This finding echoes what's already been written here about the uR and 1.2. Good stuff.

My whole chain delivers Roon with the (by now obligatory) Cisco 2960 switch, through a Blue Jeans Audio ethernet cable to a SonicOrbiter 1.5 Roon server, then via another Blue Jeans ethernet cable to the uR, which is powered by the LPS-1.2 and Sonore DC4 power cable, then out to a Chord Hugo 2 via a Curious Cables USB "Hugo link", and finally through a Chord Shawline RCA to DIN cable to my 282.

Sounds pretty boss to me! And it's utterly reliable, with none of the dropouts that often seem to plague the streamers discussed on the forum, many of which, sadly, are Naim's own.

I know the above chain may seem bewildering to the uninitiated, but really, it all works together seamlessly and in my opinion is no more of a faff to set up than any streamer. 

--Joe

Hi Joe,

Nice looking line up. You might find a gain using PoE + 1m Supra CAT8 rather than the DC4.

Another tip, pushed by Mr Watts, is to use ferrites on the USB (or SPDIF) cable, lots of 'em.

Personally I found a nice gain in placing an Iso Regen twixt uR and DAC.

....all that said, you could just get on listening to music, that WOULD be radical!

ATB,

M

P.S. What DAC did you have before the Hugo 2? Any thoughts on pushing the boat out for a Blu?

Hi Joe,

Just went to check and NOT spread mis-information:

Rob Watts recommends ferrites on SPDIF cables;
He has heard NO difference with USB cables - others claim to.

M

Congratulations Joe! That looks like quite the setup. I would second M's advice about the Supra CAT8 for DC! Enjoy!

B.

Newbie question, so the MR requires a DAC, but what application are you using, assume Naim.

I run a MicroRendu in one of my systems, but it needs an 'open source' control app, so the Naim app cannot be used. 

I use the open source Lumin app. In theory the Linn Kazoo app is open source and could be used, but I find that it won't work reliably with the microRendu.m