The Hugo of streaming?

No quarter posted:

innocent Bystander

I am kind of with you on this,when I first heard about the Micro-Rendu I was thinking that it might be something to pursue,since I have a Hugo,yet all these add on gadgets and isolaters and power supplies,not to mention all the fiddling around you need to do are really a turn off for me.Since I do not currently have a NAS (I have a 2 terabyte external storage connected to a laptop) I was thinking that a Melco would be a simple solution for me.Now with the uniti core about to hit the market,this might be all I need,yet I would be curious to know which combo sounds the best,I think all Naim is the simplest.I would like to take my laptop out of the chain,currently I use j-river feeding my 272 ...the Hugo is not being used at the moment.

IIUC Core can feed a rendered stream to a DAC (e.g. Hugo). It's quality is unclear at the moment, on the one hand Phil Harris has said he can't tell the difference between Core and NDX as renderer in his system, and on the other reportedly a Naim rep at a show has said Core isn't as good as other Naim offerings (not direct quotes). If it is as good as Melco than it certainly would make a good store/renderer (player). MAybe your 272 has a challenger to come?

Tuomo posted:

Hi Mr Underhill,    It would be interesting to know your DAC - line isolator - NAC combination. Maybe line isolator would be worth to try also between my Chord Hugo and Naim NAC282.

My DAC is a Bel Canto 3.5vb, this uses a VBS (Virtual Battery Supply) to isolate the DAC from the mains. I use the balanced outputs to connect to my EAR868PL pre-amp.

Have tried a variety of gizmos I read a post on CA where the chap mentioned he and a friend had both used Line Isolators in similar circumstances to address what I was hearing, sharpness/edge.

I bought an ART via eBay for £30:

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/art-dti

I have read about the Jensen transformers that have a good rep, but are balanced only - which is fine for me. I have just bought a Jensen Isomax PB-2XX via eBay to hear whether it will further improve on the ART; I'll post back in due course ....you never know I may have a bargain available! That said, I am going to try it on my phono input, you never know.

M

No quarter posted:

innocent Bystander

I am kind of with you on this......

And I am not against this. I think the mR is a superb product but it is worth being aware that there is much fine tuning available, if you choose to do it.

I think there are levels of complexity in how the musical signal is transported and potentially polluted. If you go the full Naim route the hope is that they have fully anticipated and dealt with all these issues; that said what happens when you plug in something non-Naim, or share your AC with things other than the HiFi?

Speaking for myself I am just about done, once I have tried the Jensen transformers that will be it for a few years, although I AM going to:

1. Remove the whole USB chain and try to determine which mods have the greatest influence; and

2. Try a friend's AC regenerator when he next pops over to listen to my system.

M

Mr Underhill

i appreciate all the effort you have put in to finding the optimal set up with the Micro -Rendu,that is why these forums are so helpful,it allows you to sit back and let others do all the leg work for you,then when they come up with the best solution,you can take their advice and go purchase the gear that suits your needs.There is also a guy on the chord Dave head-fi forum(Romaz) that has done extensive testing with various cables,isolaters etc. And he also uses the Micro-rendu in his set up that may be of interest to you.

Thx No Quarter, I'll pop over there and have a gander.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Been trying combinations of clients and servers with the mR, my notes:

Setup 1: Synology 1812 - Bubbleupnp / Kazoo / mR - DLNA Mode
Seems faster on its feet than LMS, but also shows recording issues more readily. Seat of the pants stuff, really enjoy it.

Setup 2: Synology 1812 - LMS / mR - Sqeezelite Mode
Kinder, but less incisive.

Setup 3: Synology 1812 - Media Server / Foobar2000 / mR - DLNA Mode
I feel that with DSD on the fly transposition this seems to be a good compromise btwn Kazoo & LMS.


Setup 4: Synology 1812 - Media Server / JRiver / mR - DLNA Mode
Seems to be a good compromise bwtn Kazoo & LMS.

Setup 5: Synology 1812 - Media Server / HQPlayer/ mR - NAA Mode
 Transcoding to DSD does remove some edge, but it also strips out a lot of life.
Easy to move between DSD and PCM output.

M

Since I have done a LOT of work refining my digital front end I thought I would briefly revisit the software. This was also keyed by listening to the mR in NAA mode as this should offer an advantage as the mR does no processing, whereas in DLNA mode it does. I do not know where LMS sits wrt processing. New results:

Setup 1: Synology 1812 - Bubbleupnp / Kazoo / mR - DLNA Mode
Can tend towards sharp. Lacks a bit of body and bass.

Setup 2: Synology 1812 - LMS / mR - Sqeezelite Mode
Wow, excellent. Sharpness less than Setup 1. BODY & bass.

Setup 3: Synology 1812 - Media Server / Foobar2000 / mR - DLNA Mode
Foobar swaps the left and right channel! Compensated for via DSP.
No SOX or Equalisation.
Sound as Setup 1.

I still have the sharp S & T issue with a few tracks. Using VST in DSP allows me to cope with this by playing with the equalisation and dialing down 7-10kHz.

Setup 5: Synology 1812 - HQPlayer/ mR - NAA Mode
Run without processing/filters.
Detailed. Little sharpness. Not as visceral as Setup 2.

Conclusion

For me the CLEAR winner is now LMS run on my Synology 1812 with Squeezelight on the mR.

M

^

Sounds like you are getting there! I think I know this 'sharpness' that you refer to - in my case I had an old phono cable Van Den Hul, the M.C. D- 502 that I made a short (2ft) DIY USB link out of (-not USB spec, & no +5V, & has good shielding). It just happened to foot the bill with mR feeding V1 in my system, perhaps a little soft but no 'edge/sharpness/hardness' and timing remains great. I like it.

Using LMS myself on my Vortexbox with the mR. Better than minimserver in DLNA mode I think. Also less of a hassle than minim (for me) on my set up. If you haven't tried iPeng as control software then you should. Beats Kazoo and Lumin, etc easily in usability. Well worth the $9 it costs imo. 

Brilliant posted:

^

Sounds like you are getting there! I think I know this 'sharpness' that you refer to - in my case I had an old phono cable Van Den Hul, the M.C. D- 502 that I made a short (2ft) DIY USB link out of (-not USB spec, & no +5V, & has good shielding). It just happened to foot the bill with mR feeding V1 in my system, perhaps a little soft but no 'edge/sharpness/hardness' and timing remains great. I like it.

I should have mentioned that I never found this cable to be a good one for VDH's intended application - (tonearm to pre-amp) and would not recommend it for that purpose (even though long discontinued, I believe and replaced by the 'Hybrid' version) . That is why it was lying around. However it was well constructed, flexible and with good shielding - so I gave it a shot.

Well, I have continued tuning my system over the last few months. The main driver for this has been that some music has been rather sharp on Ss and Ts.

The main changes have been:

1. I sold the Mutec3+USB
This was a difficult decision. There is NO DOUBT that the Mutec resolved more detail. However, I found that while good files sounded great anything that had S & T issues had those amplified. Ultimately I found that removing the Mutec lost me fine detail but just improved my enjoyment. I do not think this is a denigration of the the Mutec per se, just its use in my system.

2. Singxer F1
Thought I would give this a go. It is a definite step up on the Audio Breeze. It maintains the good points of the Breeze but adds some extended and sweet high frequencies. This is being fed its power by the mR with its inbuilt Regen technology.

3. USB Storage
One of the posters on Computer Audiophile has reported some interesting results using USB to store his music files. I am copying his steps and will report the results if anyone is interested.

4. IFI Purifier 2
In line with (3) I have bought one of these widgets and have just plugged it into my system.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Well, I have continued tuning my system over the last few months. The main driver for this has been that some music has been rather sharp on Ss and Ts.

The main changes have been:

1. I sold the Mutec3+USB
This was a difficult decision. There is NO DOUBT that the Mutec resolved more detail. However, I found that while good files sounded great anything that had S & T issues had those amplified. Ultimately I found that removing the Mutec lost me fine detail but just improved my enjoyment. I do not think this is a denigration of the the Mutec per se, just its use in my system.

2. Singxer F1
Thought I would give this a go. It is a definite step up on the Audio Breeze. It maintains the good points of the Breeze but adds some extended and sweet high frequencies. This is being fed its power by the mR with its inbuilt Regen technology.

3. USB Storage
One of the posters on Computer Audiophile has reported some interesting results using USB to store his music files. I am copying his steps and will report the results if anyone is interested.

4. IFI Purifier 2
In line with (3) I have bought one of these widgets and have just plugged it into my system.

M

Thanks for the report! At a certain point I'll replace my oldish M2Tech Hiface Evo with a newer USB to SPDIF interface and I'll come back to this thread. Best, nbpf

Whatever happened to plug and play?

.SJB

If you have a microRendu and you haven't gotten an Uptone LPS-1 power supply for it yet, then, imo, you're not even half there. That power supply is what I would imagine what a supercap might do in the Naim world (for a 1/10 of the cost). If you do get one, also pay attention to the dc power cable between it and the rendu - the shorter the better. I found a $6.00  six inch cable to be better than the one that came with it and I'm sure one of the custom made Cardas cables Sonore sells is even better but not planning to go there (yet). Only after add ing an LPS-1 would I then embark on further upgrades - it will set the baseline for sure. 

Sloop John B posted:

Whatever happened to plug and play?

 

.SJB

That's what's known as a cd player...

Seriously though, if you want the sound quality of an NDS or X at a fraction of the price, you have to roll your sleeves up and get a bit dirty with boutique audio products. It's fun and worth it though it important to "keep it real." 

charlesphoto posted:

If you have a microRendu and you haven't gotten an Uptone LPS-1 power supply for it yet, then, imo, you're not even half there.

Hi Charles,

I have been waiting for someone to report back on the LPS1 here. What PSU were you using before? I bought the SBooster before the LPS1 was available, but it has a good rep.

M

I received an LPS-1 a while back but have not had the chance to hook it up to the mR. That should change soon. I will post some observations here.

Mr Underhill posted:

charlesphoto posted:

If you have a microRendu and you haven't gotten an Uptone LPS-1 power supply for it yet, then, imo, you're not even half there.

Hi Charles,

I have been waiting for someone to report back on the LPS1 here. What PSU were you using before? I bought the SBooster before the LPS1 was available, but it has a good rep.

M

I started with the ifi 9v (now used for charging the LPS-1) then the HDPLEX (now used for powering various other things). Both were good, but the Uptone just plays on another level altogether. 

Thx Chaps,

Brilliant I'll look forward to your thoughts. As it happens I am doing some other changes where I could use the SBooster, so an LPS1 is not off the cards.

M

Well, I'm going even further down the CA rabbit hole and ordered myself a pair of fiber optic transmitters and a cable today. Will power the downstream one with either an ifi or a y splitter with the Uptone LPS and the upstream one plugs into the TV circuit. What's sold me on the FMC's is the reports that it pretty much renders upstream power issues with ethernet pretty much moot, and the only cable and linear power supplies one need worry about is the downstream FMC and into the streamer, dac, etc. Will still use my Meicord Opal ethernet cable form the FMC to the microRendu. Worth a punt for $75 all in (not counting power supply of course). 

charlesphoto posted:

Well, I'm going even further down the CA rabbit hole and ordered myself a pair of fiber optic transmitters and a cable today. Will power the downstream one with either an ifi or a y splitter with the Uptone LPS and the upstream one plugs into the TV circuit. What's sold me on the FMC's is the reports that it pretty much renders upstream power issues with ethernet pretty much moot, and the only cable and linear power supplies one need worry about is the downstream FMC and into the streamer, dac, etc. Will still use my Meicord Opal ethernet cable form the FMC to the microRendu. Worth a punt for $75 all in (not counting power supply of course). 

My understanding is that electrical noise from SPMSs etc can contaminate your audio gear via the mains as well, so I'm not sure if the idea of optical isolation is quite that watertight. Especially when you need a mains connection to the media converter inside the optical connection. I'm not saying it isn't worth a punt, though.

ChrisSU posted:

---

charlesphoto posted:

Well, I'm going even further down the CA rabbit hole and ordered myself a pair of fiber optic transmitters and a cable today. Will power the downstream one with either an ifi or a y splitter with the Uptone LPS and the upstream one plugs into the TV circuit. What's sold me on the FMC's is the reports that it pretty much renders upstream power issues with ethernet pretty much moot, and the only cable and linear power supplies one need worry about is the downstream FMC and into the streamer, dac, etc. Will still use my Meicord Opal ethernet cable form the FMC to the microRendu. Worth a punt for $75 all in (not counting power supply of course). 

My understanding is that electrical noise from SPMSs etc can contaminate your audio gear via the mains as well, so I'm not sure if the idea of optical isolation is quite that watertight. Especially when you need a mains connection to the media converter inside the optical connection. I'm not saying it isn't worth a punt, though.

My power is pretty tight - I have the V1 and 110 on a separate dedicated circuit, and the rest of the gear on a different dedicated circuit (nas on a different non-ded. circuit). The Uptone LPS cuts off the microRendu from the mains entirely (and the FMC if I can safely power both with the LPS). Going by comments over on computer audiophile, when tweaks are ranked by effectiveness, the addition of fmc's always comes out at #1. Of course MMMV. But for $75 all in as you say it's worth a punt. 

Well Andrew Everard seemed to think it was a very good punt, and I think it was him who started this bandwagon rolling. I networked my house with optical, primarily for reasons other than sound quality, but still thought I may have heard a small SQ improvement. I may have to revert to Cat 5e some time to reassess that.  

Simon,

I hear you. I went with what's recommend the most over on CA for the rendu (the TP-link MC110CS). Trendnet make consumer units that use SFP's - some people report those being slightly better, but for now just wanted to keep it simple (and cheapest). Will report back once they are in place. Moving beyond the microRendu and the LPS-1 all of the sound tweaks will be subtle as it is as this pair is just so good. But I did notice a slight improvement going from the supplied generic 1meter dc cable to a 6 inch generic, so the improvements are there and fortunately for not a big outlay.

Best,

CP

ChrisSU posted:

Well Andrew Everard seemed to think it was a very good punt, and I think it was him who started this bandwagon rolling. I networked my house with optical, primarily for reasons other than sound quality, but still thought I may have heard a small SQ improvement. I may have to revert to Cat 5e some time to reassess that.  

I think DaveBK started it off before Mr Everard popped up on this forum. 

james n posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Well Andrew Everard seemed to think it was a very good punt, and I think it was him who started this bandwagon rolling. I networked my house with optical, primarily for reasons other than sound quality, but still thought I may have heard a small SQ improvement. I may have to revert to Cat 5e some time to reassess that.  

I think DaveBK started it off before Mr Everard popped up on this forum. 

Fair enough, I stand corrected! Just going by my own findings, which started with Andrew reporting on the TPLink stuff.