The best standard power cord?
Posted by: Efraim roots on 25 January 2010
Greetings!
Naim is very sensitive to installation I have learned and I'm trying to get most out of my 202/200. I got the 'I Sheng' powercord with the nap200 and I today thought that I should try a 'Ching Cheng' that came with my Lingo2 on the nap200. I also did a search on this forum and read that 'ching cheng' also been used as standard cord with Naim equipment aswell as Linn.
I must say that the difference is really fundamental were the 'ching cheng' is more warm, tuneful and balanced the 'I sheng' is more cold and clear, more 'hammering' rythmwize. I think I prefer the ching cheng in the long run but I will experiment some more.
I also compared the 'I sheng' with a recent Linn standard cord called 'Tongyuan' on my Lingo2 and did not hear the same differences as on the amp, here the Tongyuan was simply better on everything, tunwize, PRAT and soundwize.
Have somebody tried and compared the different standard cords sent with Naim equipment? Wich do you prefer? Have you taken notice on the direction of the cable? It's a shame that the direction of standard cables are random. I would like to know wich is best musically and PRATwize.
If I buy a new cord from my Naim dealer which will I likley get today? Im located in northern Europe.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Mike-B
Are you not getting a bit too obsessively selective on power cords.
The 2 brand new standard Naim cords from 2008 & 2009 that I have in my spares box have moulded on IEC plugs stamped with the name Kema Keur, they, & the makes you list are Chinese assembly plants making IEC leads by the million for any and all manufacturers & wholesalers they have supply contracts with.
Now lets get sensible, this type of 3 core PVC cable is not going to do much in either sound improvements or differences
As for directionality, are you serious, next you will be testing the difference sounds in each moon phase. (sorry, I don't want to kill your enthusiasm but don't talk about this outside of HiFi or they will lock you up)
If you don't want a Naim Powerline, why not consider a lower cost alternative with better quality cable but especially better termination. Or better still make your own & have real fun in your own listening tests.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Digiman77
I have had positve experiences with Supra Lo-Rad powercables. They have at least excellent shielding. But i can not say that i realy heard a large difference in sound quality against the original Naim cables.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
Actually Mike-B, there is a big difference between these cables even if they are standard chinese ones. A 'better quality' cable do not at all have to be better than the standard ones. There is a reason why Naim and Linn chose these cables. Cable buisness is dirty and you must use your ears and test for your self insted of going for technical spec. Standard ones is often better than a 'super-duper tech' cable, especially if you are after so called 'flat earth' qualities like musicality and PRAT.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
Digiman77, sorry to say but I heard not so good things about supra Lorad cables. Even tho they are shielded which technically should be a good thing they are reported to be not so good in terms of musicality. Maybe you could try again with you standard cables Naim supplied with your equipment. If you do please report your results.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Mike-B
quote:
here is a big difference between these cables even if they are standard chinese ones
OK my friend, off you go, good luck.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Digiman77
quote:
Originally posted by Efraim roots:
Digiman77, sorry to say but I heard not so good things about supra Lorad cables. Even tho they are shielded which technically should be a good thing they are reported to be not so good in terms of musicality. Maybe you could try again with you standard cables Naim supplied with your equipment. If you do please report your results.
That could be Efraim. But i have not heard big differences between powercables on my Naim gear. I guess i am lucky to have clean power in my house.
I have A-B tested stock and Supra and the only difference i could here was posibly quieter backgrounds with the Supra.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
Mike, I understand you are sceptical but you could easy do the demo yourself to know for sure that you are right
Try Naim standard with some other old PC cable or something. Btw, the name Kema-kuer is on almost every cable out there, you should look for another name to say which one you got.
Digiman77, Ok. But what happens with the music, does it get worse or better in musical timing? That is what I listen for as musical timing is by far most important IMHO.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Don Phillips
Hi guys,
In spite two or three years of neurotic experimentation and boring those around me, I have to confirm that very little beats the vanilla cables that come as standard with Naim equipment (or Linn for that matter).
It is easy to make up your own, using MK and Wattgate plugs, that sound different, but they are not quite right.
What is interesting, if you are making up your own is not to go after exotic cable, screened or 28 Amp, or whatever. But try some really old cable, something that has had a lot of amps running through for a long time. Say from kitchen appliance, or electric fire. They do prove interesting, suggesting that a long term burn in has some benefits.
Goodness know why....
Don, overcast downtown York
PS IF YOU ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO MAKE UP ELECTRIC CABLES, DON'T!
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Mike-B
quote:
understand you are sceptical but you could easy do the demo yourself to know for sure that you are right
I have my friend - I have. After a number of years on this planet taken up listening to all sorts of kooky stuff I can confirm that kettle leads sound much more bubbly. I make my own.
I am like Don bored with all this cable stuff
Go smoke some herb, everything sounds sooo much prettier & that's a proven fact, not a subjective opinion.
BiBi all have fun
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
Ok. Well I just want to make sure I get the most out of what I got, and as the standard cables don't cost much but still differs in performance I thought that it would be of interest to discuss this with the forum members.
I know that the recent Linn standard cord 'Tongyuan' with the text running from the wall towards the equipment is the best in a 'tune dem' compared to older Linn standard cords and probably better than every hitech hifi cable out there (in terms of musicality).
I thought that Naim which is fanatic to detail (one BIG reason they sound so good) would have users who care about such things aswell. In my tests it seems like Naim is even more sensitive to such things than Linn.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by winkyincanada
quote:
Originally posted by Efraim roots:
Have you taken notice on the direction of the cable? It's a shame that the direction of standard cables are random. I would like to know wich is best musically and PRATwize.
You seriously think this makes a difference? On a power cable? I'd almost accept(almost, but no, not really) that there could be an inifintessimal effect on a signal carrying cable, but on a power cable? No way. Get a life, as they say.
Don't mess with power cables unless you're qualified. What Don said.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Mike-B
Winky, the affects of lunch have now worn off & in the cold sober light of a mellow evening alone, the wife is up town at a show, & the prospect of uninterrupted music at my preferred volume looming large, I have scientifically concluded that AC cord directionality - & probably all of this post - is either a wind up or someone has missed out on his medication.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
OMG, I couldn't believe I would get these kind of comments..
It is a clear difference in sound, musicality and PRAT between different standard power cords in a well tuned HiFi. Do the dem your self. If your Hifi is installed and tuned by your dealer or well installed by your self or anyone who knows what he is doing you will hear the difference.
And about cable direction, is not EVERY Naim cable directional? Why would they do that?? Yes it could not be explaint by tech spec but just listen. Thats all you have to do to! One way to think about the power cable is that it is a part of the power supply.
I know which cable works best with Linn, it's the Tongyuan as I posted earlier. Now I want to know wich of the Naim standard ones you think is best in terms of musicality and PRAT. Btw, I did the demo between 'I Sheng' and 'Ching Cheng' on my nap200/nac202 again and I will use the 'I Sheng' (supplied with the NAP) because it is more dynamic and rytmic, the 'Cing Cheng' is more tuneful but not as fun and lively.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Guido Fawkes
My Power-Line is definitely directional - I always put the three pin plug in the wall socket and the IEC in the Naim power supply - never thought of trying them the other way around.
The standard power cables that come with Naim kit are better than anything made in China; the only better mains leads are the Hydra/PowerIgel made with pukka Naim leads and, of course, the Power-Line.
Others may change the sound, but will not improve it.
Never understand why people change these items - would you take the lid off and start changing the capacitors (no need to answer that) - people change cables because they can, not because it is worth doing.
Use Naim power leads, Naim interconnects and Naim speaker cable and be amazed if you will that these sound rather good with Naim system - funny that.
quote:
If your Hifi is installed and tuned by your dealer ... who knows what he is doing you will hear the difference.
I agree with that 100% and he used proper Naim cables throughout - except on my LP12 where he used proper Linn cables.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by rich46
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike-B:
Winky, the affects of lunch have now worn off & in the cold sober light of a mellow evening alone, the wife is up town at a show, & the prospect of uninterrupted music at my preferred volume looming large, I have scientifically concluded that AC cord directionality - & probably all of this post - is either a wind up or someone has missed out on his medication.[/QUOTe
from the consumer unit to the sockets etc are 2.5mm2 or above cable. if the connections are tight and connected correctly. the one metre of mains cable will not make any difference. very slight possibility of rfi. spend money on cd/records not slly money cables.
vibration from where i ask
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
ROTF. Exactly, Naim has supplied their mains cables because they tested them and know that they are good. But supplies run out and vice versa, therefor there are several different standard ones supplied with Naim. I want to know which is best between them, as they will be different.
rich46, I fully agree that you should not spend silly money on cables. I hate that kind of buisness and this is NOT about that. I am talking about chosing the best sounding standard cables. Im also quite sure these will outperform almost every Hifi cable out there.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Mike-B
quote:
Power-Line is definitely directional - I always put the three pin plug in the wall socket and the IEC in the Naim power supply - never thought of trying them the other way around.
Best LOL of the nite.
quote:
The standard power cables that come with Naim kit are better than anything made in China
problem is they are made in China, I checked the supplier code.
Anyhow, Gilmour at Gdansk is back in his rack, refilled glass - Nice Pinotage from Simonsig, place carefully DSOTM, gently fit puck, sit back & turn off this Dell shaped f####black box.
Bi-eee
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by craig sidwell
Hi Efram,
(Assuming that my comments are even allowed!
)You're quite clearly waisting you time trying to discuss this kind of stuff on here. (which is why I don't bother anymore, I'm only doing this to fill in time as I finish my morning cuppa)
Talk about the blind leading the blind, just have a look at the profiles of some of these hi-fi 'experts'.
If a metre of mains cable didn't make a difference how the hell could Naim think they could ever demonstrate and sell the benefits of a $1000 cable?
I have experimented with plenty of mains related cables, connections, switches, fuses and directionality over the years and the performances differences can be huge, bigger even than the signal side of things.
Discussions on experimentation by non qualified end users with regards to mains power should rightly be discouraged, but by the same token, sceptics with low standards of reference and little experience with such things should not discuss it with ridicule.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Mike Dudley
Graham's Hydra. £80. Sorted. End of.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
problem is they are made in China, I checked the supplier code.
Does that include the ones with Crabtree plugs? What about the Power-Line?
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by JWM
KEMA-KEUR is not a manufacturer's name, it is a testing and standards mark.
You might have more joy investigating Pirelli Cables (which might go under a different name now).
There has/have been past thread/s on manufacture/origin of Naim standard mains cable.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Richard Dane
Not sure the country of manufacture of the current UK power leads. The plugs (Crabtree or MK depending on supply and availability) are fitted at Naim.
The Powerline is, of course, painstakingly made at the Naim factory.
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by docmark
I think that the best power cords to get are made by Nordost - the Odin. At only $16,000 per cable, they sound great with Naim gear. I have several of them.
Not!
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Massimo Bertola
Before I went completely nuts and bought three Powerlines (all new), I did experiment a bit even though I definitely am for keeping everything standard, just with power cords and just because I can't believe that PVC, pressed cords can be really good, and Naim must be equally doubtful or they wouldn't have developed the Powerline.
I found that silicone cord - in my case, 3x1.5, non shielded, plain cord - is not expensive and works well, just that little bit better than the much respected standard one not to spoil you the pleasure of still wanting a Powerline. It is better in all - extension, cohesiveness. I am sure that no material on the surface of Earth can equal PVC in rubbishness. Silicone is a better isolator. For some mysterious reason, the Powerline is jacketed in rubber, not in PVC...
So, as I have written before, if you want to experiment, dare not challenging Naim's authority too much and want nonetheless upgrade on the esecrable stock cord, just do one with silicone cable and two decent plugs.
Cheers,
Max
Posted on: 25 January 2010 by Efraim roots
Please, everyone. Can you not read my text or what is the probem? Is my english so bad? You have strong opinions but it has NOTHING to do with my original questions
To simplify, My original questions was:
quote:
Have somebody tried and compared the different standard cords sent with Naim equipment? Wich do you prefer?
quote:
If I buy a new cord from my Naim dealer which will I likley get today? Im located in northern Europe.
If you don't have anything to say about THIS, please do not bother reply.
