Roon.... brilliant

Downloaded Roon tonight to see what all the fuss is about. The setup bit of a lashup at the moment with the core and browser running on my Mac Laptop over wireless, sourcing files from my Melco, with my Devialet as the end point. Despite the non optimal network configuration, setup was a breeze and i had music playing within a few minutes. I'll leave it to fully index my library before having a proper play but this looks like it could be a lot of fun and the user interface i've been looking for... 

Echolane posted:

Bart posted:

Echolane posted:

Sloop John B posted:

From from your post the sonic transporter is not your core the windows machine is. 

The sonic transporter is accessed by a web interface. Typing www.sonicorbiter.com into a browser on the same network should bring it up. This should give you the option on”manage” your sonic transporter, do you get this option using your main win 7 machine you are using as Roon Remote?

.sjb

 

I do know the Core should be the Sonic Transporter.  However, when I would disconnect the Computer from Roon Core the system would hang because Roon couldn’t find the Sonic Transporter.  I tried that numerous times.   I had a tech on my computer today and was told Roon was hung.  So now I was finally able to disconnect Roon Core from my computer and point Roon to the Sonic Transporter.   I had to decline to use the Computer as a second Roon input and after I went through a few steps  I got music playing simultaneously in both my living room and TV room systems!!  It actually sounds great.

I will still have to debug the reason why I am getting no music at my computer.  I can not get any sound there out of YouTube either.  I have had repeated difficulties keeping the ASUS sound Card going there.  Twice I’ve sent it to ASUS only to be told nothing is wrong.   I’ve had it with that sound card.  I am currently shopping for an external DAC, though I have no idea what I am doing yet.

At least Roon is finally playing music in half my systems as it is supposed to do and I am grateful for that.

 I have only briefly viewed my music albums but it’s enough to say I am more determined than ever to try to override Roon’s metadata.  Roon doesn’t present my music in a way that is natural to me, which is alphabetical.  Alphabetical  had some  problems in Naim, too, but editing solved that for me.  All album titles with a composer are now in the same format (Puccini: Madame Butterfly).  This means that presenting by Album Title in Naim  works  perfectly for every album with a composer, which is the majority of my music.  

Roon makes a mess of Title.  Sometimes it’s Title.  Sometimes it’s Composer + Title, sometimes it’s Composer First Name, Last Name + Title.  

It also fails to find a lot of my track information that Naim was able to find.

Roon has a lot of my cover art wrong.  That makes it even harder to find an album.

Sometimes it groups multi disc albums correctly.  When it doesn’t, sometimes the 2nd disk is next and other times I’ve no idea where it Or they are.

Roon also offers a sort by Artist instead of Title, but that comes out way worse than title for me.  It has several other sort options but they are all by date.   Why would anyone want music presented by date?  How would you every find most of your music?

I think I can get SongKong to work tomorrow and will hopefully soon see if I can force Roon Into to a format I like better.

Go into settings and tell Roon to use your metadata for Album name.  This will solve a LOT of your issues.  You'll see YOUR album names, and Roon will sort them alphabetically based on your album names (the way the Naim app sorts them).  This really is a simple fix. 

I do this as well and IMHO it reflects the power of Roon; you can combine your metadata preferences with its management, and the combination, to me, is way better than either. You can get the best of both; at least I can.

Nope.  Won’t work.  Roon cannot read my Naim generated WAV metadata.  A source of great frustration to me because my metadata is essentially perfect with 99.9% accuracy on Titles, Artist, Cover Art and Artist.  All almost 600 albums.  I am working to get SongKong to interpret the Naim metadata and repackage it with WAV file as ID3 format (I think I have that format name  right, check for this info earlier in this thread).  If so, I will have a WAV File that can be as universally read as mp3 files are.  And only then will I be able to submit it to Roon and order Roon tomuse my metadata.

Oh sorry -- missed that your files are still in the Naim metadata ecosystem   IMHO the sooner you get out of that the better. Fortunately for me, I exited that when I still had a UnitiServe which was happy to convert my existing wave rips to flac.  Other than adding in better album art (the UServe liked to give me 10kb images whereas I want folder.jpg to be around 700kb) I didn't have much faffing to do with the metadata.

james n posted:

Downloaded Roon tonight to see what all the fuss is about. The setup bit of a lashup at the moment with the core and browser running on my Mac Laptop over wireless, sourcing files from my Melco, with my Devialet as the end point. Despite the non optimal network configuration, setup was a breeze and i had music playing within a few minutes. I'll leave it to fully index my library before having a proper play but this looks like it could be a lot of fun and the user interface i've been looking for... 

Are you coming from Naim generated and edited metadata?  Is it in FLAC or WAV?  Let us know how your metadata has turned out under Roon.

Echolane posted:

Oh sorry -- missed that your files are still in the Naim metadata ecosystem   IMHO the sooner you get out of that the better. Fortunately for me, I exited that when I still had a UnitiServe which was happy to convert my existing wave rips to flac.  Other than adding in better album art (the UServe liked to give me 10kb images whereas I want folder.jpg to be around 700kb) I didn't have much faffing to do with the metadata.

I wish the Uniti Core could convert!  Luckily SongKong is on the threshold of rescuing me from a disastrous situation.  Without it, I would be faced with reripping all my albums to FLAC!  Naim has greatly complicated the switch to Roon and reaffirms my antipathy to proprietary systems.     I was advised to start with the Naim Uniti Core and to rip into WAV.  While the Uniti Core did get me started, and I am grateful for that part, I have gradually grown more ambitious and realized its limitations.  

I don’t think I will leave Naim completely behind.  It will be complicated to manage two SSD music libraries, but I am reluctant to give up the ripping capabilities of the Uniti Core, at least for the time being and I might even prefer using the Naim app when I’m listening at my main audio system..   

 

I too started with the Naim ripper (then UServe) as (re)entering the world of hi fi and entering the world of digital music files all at once seemed too daunting.  As I learned . . . like you I grew ambitious and realized its limitations and moved on and beyond.  I was able to sell off the UServe at a decent price. It worked out.

I converted the meta data of my entire library of around 700 wav albums in like 15 minutes with MP3TAG.

garyi posted:

I converted the meta data of my entire library of around 700 wav albums in like 15 minutes with MP3TAG.

Wish it was that easy with all music files. I’ve tried sevaral editors including that and it is a paistaking process, so abandoned as I have better things on which to spend my life, and instead put up with the irritations of my library software and using a manual work-around at times. Fixing the metadata has to wait until I retire and possibly have enough time, unless or until I find a(n affordable, high quality) renderer with software that also allows simple browsing by file structure.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bart posted:

Random play -- Roon users have two choices -- (1) Yes and (2) No.

If you like it, great; use it.

If you don't like it, great; don't use it.

Thus, in my mind, if one doesn't like it, why does it "infect" the rest of the feature set in said one's mind?

It depends what you’re talking about - if its a feature you don’t use, and that doesn’t get in the way of anything, say like random play, then it doesn’t “infect” as you put it, and I don’t think anyone has suggested it does. But if it is a feature of the interface that is ever present or thrust at you, like cluttering the interface, or continually suggesting things in which  you haven't the slightest interest, making the intereface irritating, then the converse is true and it can “infect” it, and would only be overcome if any unique benefits of the software outweigh its irritations.

Really no idea what you are on about here. BTW, the shuffle and/or radio mode is one of the key reasons I switched to Roon. The 500 album limit with Naim for shuffle is just stupid, about as stupid as their CORE with proprietary WAV metadata. Why spend so much to be so hampered when there are so many great options out there? 

FYI Roon is supposed to be doing a UI makeover etc sometime in the new year, as well as adding Qboz once they are open for biz in the US. Might be time to hang back a bit if you’re on the fence. One of the things that’s great about Roon vs being stuck in Naim, is that Roon can play to so many different devices: mR in living room (which also bridges to the UQ in the office), Sonos in kitcehn and bathroom, any of the various Macs and iPads hanging about, the Mu-So in the bedroom (albiet via airplay), and so on. And control it from said iPads, Macs, Android phone, iPhone, etc, all going at once. The Naim app, for what it costs (ie the price of the hardware), just seems broken in comparison. 

If it’s random play you’re after, why not simply listen to Radio Paradise, Radio 3 or one of the many jazz oriented radio stations? I much prefer to play complete albums rather than treating my hifi as a very expensive jukebox.

Timmo1341 posted:

If it’s random play you’re after, why not simply listen to Radio Paradise, Radio 3 or one of the many jazz oriented radio stations? I much prefer to play complete albums rather than treating my hifi as a very expensive jukebox.

Because I’ve ‘added’ about 2000 albums from Tidal to my Roon library on top of my 1000 already ripped. So shuffle or radio inevitably bring up a lot of music I haven’t listend to before - that’s been curated to my liking. Last few times I listened to RP just didn’t do it for me - never been a Dire Straits fan and never will be.

I do listen to some jazz stations, but with the ability to shuffle by whole library, artist, genre, etc Roon can really give you a great radio experience with your own collection, and all at cd quality. (BTW, in Roon, shuffle = random, and radio = music like the one you chose to listen to first - radio can be turned on or off to play after an album). This way I get to suffer through my own ‘djing’ and not some schmuck on the internet. That said, I mostly only use shuffle/radio in the office and pretty much listen to complete albums in the living room. 

charlesphoto posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bart posted:

Random play -- Roon users have two choices -- (1) Yes and (2) No.

If you like it, great; use it.

If you don't like it, great; don't use it.

Thus, in my mind, if one doesn't like it, why does it "infect" the rest of the feature set in said one's mind?

It depends what you’re talking about - if its a feature you don’t use, and that doesn’t get in the way of anything, say like random play, then it doesn’t “infect” as you put it, and I don’t think anyone has suggested it does. But if it is a feature of the interface that is ever present or thrust at you, like cluttering the interface, or continually suggesting things in which  you haven't the slightest interest, making the intereface irritating, then the converse is true and it can “infect” it, and would only be overcome if any unique benefits of the software outweigh its irritations.

Really no idea what you are on about here. BTW, the shuffle and/or radio mode is one of the key reasons I switched to Roon. The 500 album limit with Naim for shuffle is just stupid, about as stupid as their CORE with proprietary WAV metadata. Why spend so much to be so hampered when there are so many great options out there? 

My response made sense if you read it with the post to which I replied. As for shuffle, some people want it - you obviously are one - and so providing that as an option is clearly desirable, but it is complete anathema to me as I rarely do other listen to albums in their entirety, and when I do play single tracks it is because I want to listen to very specific things.

I have to say that roon is a bit bloody good. 

In fact so bloody good that my lovely other half has offered to buy me annual membership as an early Birthday present and i've gone and bought a Roon Nucleus. 

Thanks folks - the various Roon threads have been very useful 

james n posted:

In fact so bloody good that my lovely other half has offered to buy me annual membership as an early Birthday present and i've gone and bought a Roon Nucleus. 

Thanks folks - the various Roon threads have been very useful 

James,

Would you mind telling us what you have been using before you decided to try  Roon?  What is it about Roon that you think is better?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

So I wonder what market Roon is aiming at???

Those into social media like Facebook, was my impression. (And if that group, particularly those who want mainly Tidal, or seemless  integration of Tidal with their own collection.

People keep saying this, but I don’t know what they’re referring to.  I think social media is a waste of time and love Roon.  I think it provides a much richer, engaging experience with one’s music library. 

I am sympathetic to the criticisms over its lack of accessibility for those who are sight inpaired. 

It isn’t for everyone, but then nothing is. 

Jeff

 WilcoFT posted:

People keep saying this, but I don’t know what they’re referring to.  I think social media is a waste of time and love Roon.  I think it provides a much richer, engaging experience with one’s music library. 

 

To me it was the ‘feel’ of the interface that was reminiscent of the likes of Facebook, constantly popping up suggestions I share with friends, similarly suggesting things it thought I’d like based on what I listened to - knowing nothing about my taste. However I have checked back and it seems my memoy of its social-media-like feel has reinforced itself over time as it seemed less strong at the time of my trialling. This is what I said shortly after: “The two things that stood out most were the complete seemless integration of Tidal, and the additional information. The former is of no value to me as I am not interested in Tidal. The latter goes further than Tidal, and I could see a benefit, but at the same time some of it was too much, reminiscent of social media, and for me at least the irriattion outweighed the benefit - though others may disagree (just as I dislike Facebook intensely, but some people seem to be unable to live without it).”

And this was my more objective assessment after trying:https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/roon-with-nds?reply=70272142657203085#70272142657203085

WilcoFT posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

So I wonder what market Roon is aiming at???

Those into social media like Facebook, was my impression. (And if that group, particularly those who want mainly Tidal, or seemless  integration of Tidal with their own collection.

People keep saying this, but I don’t know what they’re referring to.  I think social media is a waste of time and love Roon.  I think it provides a much richer, engaging experience with one’s music library. 

I am sympathetic to the criticisms over its lack of accessibility for those who are sight inpaired. 

It isn’t for everyone, but then nothing is. 

Jeff

I was attracted to Roon because it is not proprietary.  (Nothing to do with social media or anything else.)   I don’t by nature like to be restricted or controlled, but on a more practical basis Roon has particular advantages for me as follows:

1) It is easy to get multiple systems playing simultaneously.  I have four audio systems to coordinate.

2) it is cheaper to add Roon endpoints than to buy another Naim branded streamer for all my audio systems.

3) it has radio access features which my Naim Uniti Core does not

4) It will soon add Qobuz capability which I think I will prefer over Tidal, but nice to have both.

On the downside Naim has done a better job on metadata presentation with my opera and classical dominated music collection than Roon.  Converting my metadata from Naim is still a work in progress.  Once that’s done I hope to report better satisfaction with Roon.

Innocent Bystander posted:

 WilcoFT posted:

People keep saying this, but I don’t know what they’re referring to.  I think social media is a waste of time and love Roon.  I think it provides a much richer, engaging experience with one’s music library. 

 

To me it was the ‘feel’ of the interface that was reminiscent of the likes of Facebook, constantly popping up suggestions I share with friends, similarly suggesting things it thought I’d like based on what I listened to - knowing nothing about my taste. However I have checked back and it seems my memoy of its social-media-like feel has reinforced itself over time as it seemed less strong at the time of my trialling. This is what I said shortly after: “The two things that stood out most were the complete seemless integration of Tidal, and the additional information. The former is of no value to me as I am not interested in Tidal. The latter goes further than Tidal, and I could see a benefit, but at the same time some of it was too much, reminiscent of social media, and for me at least the irriattion outweighed the benefit - though others may disagree (just as I dislike Facebook intensely, but some people seem to be unable to live without it).”

And this was my more objective assessment after trying:https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/roon-with-nds?reply=70272142657203085#70272142657203085

 

Sorry, but I have no clue which version of Roon you tried. I’ve never once had a pop up asking me to share anything with friends or facebook, or suggesting music I might like. In fact, sometimes I like to share albums I’m listening to on FB feed, and it was only last month, a year or more into a lifetime sub I only discovered last month I could do it within Roon itself. 

Yes, it has an overview page and a Discover page (i.e. a random curate) but just don’t go to those then. There’s also album, history, artist, genre, etc. I have some issues with the UI myself and find many elements of a bit clunky, but no more so than other programs I’ve used (Naim, Linn, LMS, iPeng, Sonos, etc). The next release will be a UI update according to them, so excited to see what’s in store. Also Qobuz integration. I like Tidal, but I’m 54, not 24. They have everything I like, but feature way too much I don’t. 

Roon is not for everybody, but please don’t make it out to be something that it isn’t. Maybe do a trial again in the future after the next major upgrade. It also helps to have the hardware to run it on - NUC i5 and a hard drive with a linear power supply and put it in a closet. Runs great from my iPad, desktop Mac Pro, my Pixel phone, my son’s iPad etc and all seamlessly. Never once had to reboot for reasons of crossed controllers. Quite the opposite of you know who’s app...

Echolane posted:

james n posted:

In fact so bloody good that my lovely other half has offered to buy me annual membership as an early Birthday present and i've gone and bought a Roon Nucleus. 

Thanks folks - the various Roon threads have been very useful 

James,

Would you mind telling us what you have been using before you decided to try  Roon?  What is it about Roon that you think is better?

I've been playing music from hard disk to my Hi-Fi in various forms for about 12 years starting with iTunes and and Airport express, through squeezeboxes, Mac 'n' Dacs of various flavours, Linn and Naim streamers to my present Melco / Devialet system. Control points have just been a way of navigating my library and selecting music to play. Apart from the SQ potential (of the later solutions) the thing i've enjoyed so much about about this method of replay is the ease of access to my whole library. The one disappointment through it all has been the control experience which up until now has been rather flat - my favourite, Linn Kinsky has been good, the dedicated Melco app which has finally arrived is nothing special after all this time...

Roon has been a bit of a game changer for me in that i've now found a much more engaging control experience to match the playback quality. The user interface works well, is intuitive to use and has had me digging through forgotten discs - setup was a breeze. I'm sure there is a lot more to discover with the whole Roon experience but i'm enjoying having a play and looking forward to getting up and running properly with a dedicated core. 

charlesphoto posted:

Sorry, but I have no clue which version of Roon you tried. I’ve never once had a pop up asking me to share anything with friends or facebook, or suggesting music I might like. In fact, sometimes I like to share albums I’m listening to on FB feed, and it was only last month, a year or more into a lifetime sub I only discovered last month I could do it within Roon itself. 

Yes, it has an overview page and a Discover page (i.e. a random curate) but just don’t go to those then. There’s also album, history, artist, genre, etc. I have some issues with the UI myself and find many elements of a bit clunky, but no more so than other programs I’ve used (Naim, Linn, LMS, iPeng, Sonos, etc). The next release will be a UI update according to them, so excited to see what’s in store. Also Qobuz integration. I like Tidal, but I’m 54, not 24. They have everything I like, but feature way too much I don’t. 

Roon is not for everybody, but please don’t make it out to be something that it isn’t. Maybe do a trial again in the future after the next major upgrade. It also helps to have the hardware to run it on - NUC i5 and a hard drive with a linear power supply and put it in a closet. Runs great from my iPad, desktop Mac Pro, my Pixel phone, my son’s iPad etc and all seamlessly. Never once had to reboot for reasons of crossed controllers. Quite the opposite of you know who’s app...

I don’t know if you looked at the link I posted above - as I indicated it gave an objective assessment on conclusion of my trial - objective in that I tried to keep subjective feelings/impressions out of it. And I note that between the time of my trial and now other people have also likened some aspects of Roon’s interface to social media. The version I tried would have been whatever was provided in April 2017 - and of course it is possible thatbthe interface has been changed since then.

Others commenting in this current thread have made similar comments regarding metadata , so regardless if anything else has changed it seems Roon has yet to improve its metadata handling enough to cope with collections having poor, bad or missing metadata, so until it does there is little point in my seeing if another trial would be made available.

I fully acknowledge that Roon suits many people - though clearly not all: but the beauty is that as long as someone has something suitable to run it on they can have a free trial to see for themselves whether it suits them.

Fair enough. It’s just that I can’t see anywhere one can even turn on or off popups prompting you to share with friends. One has to dive into a sub menu to share on social. But my sub did start almost exactly a year ago, so perhaps that was a feature of an old version, or old trial only version. Or perhaps you got mixed up with the Tidal app? Strange because I’ve never thought of Roon as having anything to do with social media. 

Certainly not the Tidal app, as I don’t have it, but whether it was the omnipresent Tidal interface in Roon I can’t say (I ignored Tidal completely as far as was possiblr) And it wasn,t linking other social media, but feeling like it with popus appearing suggesting to share what you’re listening to with friends, and suggesting other things to listen to or investigate. Ah well...

Innocent Bystander posted:

charlesphoto posted:

Sorry, but I have no clue which version of Roon you tried. I’ve never once had a pop up asking me to share anything with friends or facebook, or suggesting music I might like. In fact, sometimes I like to share albums I’m listening to on FB feed, and it was only last month, a year or more into a lifetime sub I only discovered last month I could do it within Roon itself. 

Yes, it has an overview page and a Discover page (i.e. a random curate) but just don’t go to those then. There’s also album, history, artist, genre, etc. I have some issues with the UI myself and find many elements of a bit clunky, but no more so than other programs I’ve used (Naim, Linn, LMS, iPeng, Sonos, etc). The next release will be a UI update according to them, so excited to see what’s in store. Also Qobuz integration. I like Tidal, but I’m 54, not 24. They have everything I like, but feature way too much I don’t. 

Roon is not for everybody, but please don’t make it out to be something that it isn’t. Maybe do a trial again in the future after the next major upgrade. It also helps to have the hardware to run it on - NUC i5 and a hard drive with a linear power supply and put it in a closet. Runs great from my iPad, desktop Mac Pro, my Pixel phone, my son’s iPad etc and all seamlessly. Never once had to reboot for reasons of crossed controllers. Quite the opposite of you know who’s app...

I don’t know if you looked at the link I posted above - as I indicated it gave an objective assessment on conclusion of my trial - objective in that I tried to keep subjective feelings/impressions out of it. And I note that between the time of my trial and now other people have also likened some aspects of Roon’s interface to social media. The version I tried would have been whatever was provided in April 2017 - and of course it is possible thatbthe interface has been changed since then.

Others commenting in this current thread have made similar comments regarding metadata , so regardless if anything else has changed it seems Roon has yet to improve its metadata handling enough to cope with collections having poor, bad or missing metadata, so until it does there is little point in my seeing if another trial would be made available.

I fully acknowledge that Roon suits many people - though clearly not all: but the beauty is that as long as someone has something suitable to run it on they can have a free trial to see for themselves whether it suits them.

I get the impression that your regular references to a social media like interface could also be read as user friendly.   I guess it’s all subjective.  However this and your references to sharing pop ups which I’ve never seen in two years of use seem to be scaring people away from trying it out. 

I do agree with you that trial is the only way to decide if it works for you. 

WilcoFT posted: 

I get the impression that your regular references to a social media like interface could also be read as user friendly.   I guess it’s all subjective.  However this and your references to sharing pop ups which I’ve never seen in two years of use seem to be scaring people away from trying it out. 

I do agree with you that trial is the only way to decide if it works for you. 

Or attracting people who like what I felt was a social media media feel, or those who have a constant urge to tell friends what they're playing!  

Innocent Bystander posted:

WilcoFT posted: 

I get the impression that your regular references to a social media like interface could also be read as user friendly.   I guess it’s all subjective.  However this and your references to sharing pop ups which I’ve never seen in two years of use seem to be scaring people away from trying it out. 

I do agree with you that trial is the only way to decide if it works for you. 

Or attracting people who like what I felt was a social media media feel, or those who have a constant urge to tell friends what they're playing!  

True enough!