NDX and Chord Hugo

Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014

I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.

 

Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.

 

The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.

 

Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.

 

Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.

 

What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.

 

After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.

 

Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.

 

One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.

 

While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.

 

For me this has to be the bargain of the year.

 

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by analogmusic
You don't even own a Naim amp Graeme?
 
 
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by Fred11:

....4. Another thing that make me a little skeptic is that some, a few actually, physical laws does not apply to the "little man". Among some, the point that source does not matter. When people can hear changes from a digital cable, then theres something not smelling right. Or maybe Hugo is like superman who answers to other physical laws: ) 

Regards

Fred

This was not my finding. Indeed the two sources i tried sounded very different indeed, as i would have expected to be honest

 

Graeme

 

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by Fred11
 

Hi Fred

 

My XPS anagram was meant very much in jest, and a bit surprised that it may have been taken otherwise, but I'm well aware that text can be read the wrong way.

 

I have been purchasing audio equipment for many many years now and fully appreciate what you are saying, however i think I've come to the point where i can tell the difference between bright and sparkly and something that keeps me entertained and enthralled. After all this was on constantly for 4 days, not just a 5 min test.

 

I do wonder if my setup, not using Naim amps, may counteract some of this thinness, if this is what it was. Only longer listening period will make me certain if it is thinness now that we have been speaking of it. But it certainly has a different presentation to the NDX.

 

I'm not a lover of saying this is better than that, after all you say the Linn is more detailed than the NDX, but the NDX is more musical. So which is better?? i don't think that can be answered its just what you prefer.

 

Also would you prefer the detail of the Linn with the musicality of the NDX. Probably yes. My point is nothing is perfect, its about putting a system together that suites the individual for a given price.

 

The Hugo won't be perfect, but for what i appreciate in music and at this price, for me its a bargain.

 

Others may well appreciate other aspects and want a different system. It would be very boring if we were all the same.

 

Graeme

 

 

Thanks for the answer. 
I agree with much of what you say and understand that you did not put that much in to the anagram, though theres a lot of emotions and money invested in this hobby. 

 

Did you have a Sugden? Is not that a bit tube-like? My 202-200 is rumoured to be one of the sound wise lightest of the Naim amps and it might be a very good match for the ndx. The ndac-xps certainly lets more through or is more detailed if you like, but its really the liveliness, power, punch and drama that makes it so appealing, I guess. 
Someone here did a beautiful comparison between the weiss 202dac and the ndac-555ps. Now thats nuanced description of musical presentations! 

Good to hear you agree on different, rather than best or worse, which is more in line with the hugely subjective side with this hobby. 

 

Sure, the Hugo is probably a real bargain. 

 

Regards Fred

 

 

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by Fred11
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

Dear Fred

 

Thanks for this useful post. I too find the same thing, the Naim is all about creating a live experience, compared to focus on details.

 

As the founder of Naim said, "music is about people. If you cannot hear what the people on the recording are doing, there isn't much point"

 

SO that's why I find these kind of excitement about chord Hugo a bit useless, because while it probably sounds smoother, if it puts one to sleep (I found my previous Linn Sneaky lifeless and boring and sold it in 3 weeks), what's the point?

 

I don't quite understand Graeme's agenda on this forum? 

 

 

 

 


Hi to all!

1. Beeing a bit biased in this context with my ndx-ndac-xps, of course, I started with the ndx, before owning a Akurate ds/0. I found it less detailed than the Linn, but to me it was more musically flowing, analogue, faster, punchier with much better bass. There is many detailed brands out there, and to me Naim is not about detail and glare. Its about creating live, punchy engaging music. Not saying you are describing the Hugo as only about detail, but the wow-effect of some products can give a deceiving adrenaline effect. Sometimes it can results in certain group-think processes.

2. I have been running a Linn renew ds (klimax/0) against my ndx-xps, earlier, and the Renew was nice. More details, bigger soundstage probably and a certain smoothness. But, especially on rock it almost made me fall asleep. The Ndx-xps was much more lively, dynamic and punchy. Much more engaging. My point is that dacs and streamers are to me not only better and worse, but different. I miss the nuances in this post, which some people on this forum are great to describe. 3. My latest upgrade, the ndac was mind blowing. Its certainly not only details, but live and kicking musicians standing in front of me. By the way I run this into hiline- 202-hicap-napsc-200-SBL mk2. 

Having indeed read this thread, I was just wondering, now that you describe the possible thinness, do you find something the ndx actually does better? I see you have a Sugden, maybe its a synergy thing also.

OR maybe the hugo dac is a new Nait 1, NAD 320, LP 12 game-changing piece of equipment. Looking forward to more nuanced and detailed listening experiences, and of course many more testing this little thing over time, when adrenaline, desire and group-processes calm down a bit. 

 

With all respect, you might find a bunch of people here finding your XPS-anagram a bit lame. 

 

Regards

Fred

 

Thank you, analogmusic. 

 

Agree 100% with you and Verekers wise words. 

 

Now, even though we may be many happy NDX or ndac owners here, it will interesting to follow the little Hugo over time.


Good night

Fred

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by Foxman50

Fed

 

Yes i have a Sugden amp, i must say it took many auditions to arrive at this. I actually had a loan of a 202/200 although without the psu's, which i believe make quite a difference. But i have to say i wasn't for me. Too loud too brash and too in my face, i don't want to be sat at a concert every evening, i want to relax. This isn't said to offend its just my personal taste.

 

I have also owned a full Linn active system, but found this too analytical and uninvolving. Although this was some years ago now.

 

Ive also owned a couple of valve amps more recently and it may say a lot about my musical tastes and how i like my music, and why i love the sound of my Sugden.

 

This may also be a reason why i enjoyed the Hugo so much.

 

I think it just proves how different we all are.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
You don't even own a Naim amp Graeme?
 
 
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by Fred11:

....4. Another thing that make me a little skeptic is that some, a few actually, physical laws does not apply to the "little man". Among some, the point that source does not matter. When people can hear changes from a digital cable, then theres something not smelling right. Or maybe Hugo is like superman who answers to other physical laws: ) 

Regards

Fred

This was not my finding. Indeed the two sources i tried sounded very different indeed, as i would have expected to be honest

 

Graeme

 

Analogue you may want to look up the term "source"

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

Dear Fred

 

 

As the founder of Naim said, "music is about people. If you cannot hear what the people on the recording are doing, there isn't much point"

 

- Ah but this is precisely what the Hugo is doing for me. I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

SO that's why I find these kind of excitement about chord Hugo a bit useless, because while it probably sounds smoother, if it puts one to sleep (I found my previous Linn Sneaky lifeless and boring and sold it in 3 weeks), what's the point?

 

- Never once said it sounds smoother, but its something you'll never know because you wouldn't take the time to try it for yourself. Linn didn't do it for me either to be honest

 

I don't quite understand Graeme's agenda on this forum? 

 

- My agenda, well clearly to convert Naimeees into Chordeees clearly

 

 

 

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by BigH47

As an aside , Wat some art found on your favourite computer system:-

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/ent...nt-article-1.1768884

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Originally Posted by cat345:
Originally Posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:

That's a very cheap shot cat345, or whatever your real name might be. I'm not looking for recognition, simply trying to better understand what I'm hearing. 

Sorry if you didn't like my comments. I enjoy your reviews in a certain audio magazine but I'm fed-up of meaningless words like "emotional connection" "structure of music" "sublime sound but no music", etc, etc.. It's about time that reviewers come out of that worn out flat earth mantra.

 

Please take it with a pinch of salt as it's only my opinion and I could be way off track!

Yes, you are way off track. 

 

If you're not interested in any emotional connection with music, then what exactly are listening to music for ? Pretty sounds?

 

 

 

Posted on: 01 May 2014 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Originally Posted by Foxman50:

Jan

 

re reading through your post i wonder if this quite correct with regard to the thinness, I'm wondering if indeed this is what i was hearing on some female vocals. Now i have no idea if this is down to the battery or its just the sound of the Hugo. 

 

If it is indeed the battery i'm sure this will become evident when inevitably Chord release a boxed version that will no doubt cost close to 4k to replace the QBD DAC. 

 

However how much of a problem this is to the listener is down to personal preference and i would say system dependent too. This maybe why in my system i've found the NDX to be quite dark sounding.

 

Anyway Hugo arrives in my home tomorrow, so i'll report back how im getting on with it in a few weeks for those that are interested,  Clearly analogues on the edge of his seat  

Hi Graeme,

 

Thanks for the reply. It could well be a battery related-issue, as the thinness does seem to coincide with the latter part of my listening sessions, where I presume the battery will have lost much of its charge. I'll retry this weekend, but leaving the Hugo on the charger. 

 

In the meantime, the Hugo has been providing stellar service for evening headphone listening. It's proving to be quite addictive, and even - dare I say it - emotionally involving .

 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by analogmusic

By the way Graeme, I don't dispute your experience at all.

 

I just find it hard to understand how a little DAC with a battery can start challenging the Mighty NDS/555

 

But yes to be very fair, I haven't heard the chord, yet 

 

I do enjoy the debate, and it doesn't mean at all, that your findings are not valid.

 

I wasn't challenging you on your Sudgen, but the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by james n
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

I wasn't challenging you on your Sudgen, but the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

But sometimes better...

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by analogmusic
+1.
 
Music is all about emotion. And I was glad to read that Ken Ishiwa (marantz) and Ivor Tief. (founder of Linn) say exactly the same thing. 
 
The founder of Naim, however understood exactly what was needed to reproduce music with the emotion intact.
 
if in doubt : this is very audible in a live performance. All the emotion is there !
 
 
Originally Posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:
Originally Posted by cat345:
Originally Posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:

That's a very cheap shot cat345, or whatever your real name might be. I'm not looking for recognition, simply trying to better understand what I'm hearing. 

Sorry if you didn't like my comments. I enjoy your reviews in a certain audio magazine but I'm fed-up of meaningless words like "emotional connection" "structure of music" "sublime sound but no music", etc, etc.. It's about time that reviewers come out of that worn out flat earth mantra.

 

Please take it with a pinch of salt as it's only my opinion and I could be way off track!

Yes, you are way off track. 

 

If you're not interested in any emotional connection with music, then what exactly are listening to music for ? Pretty sounds?

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by Fokkelman
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

By the way Graeme, I don't dispute your experience at all.

 

I just find it hard to understand how a little DAC with a battery can start challenging the Mighty NDS/555

 

But yes to be very fair, I haven't heard the chord, yet 

 

I do enjoy the debate, and it doesn't mean at all, that your findings are not valid.

 

I wasn't challenging you on your Sudgen, but the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

 

According to a friend of mine who demoed the Hugo against a NDS/XPS the former comes very close.

Makes me also wonder if the time with sperate PSU is future proof. With digital power supplies it doesn't hold up anymore. I know a Linn Klimax DSM owner who has a streamer and pre in one little box and it sounds truly amazing. And man it saves a lot of space.

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by Harry
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

What is "the Naim experience"?

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by tonym

I suppose it's wrong for me to comment on the sound quality of the Hugo, having never heard it!

 

However, from what I understand, the Hugo has a similar sound to my Chord QBD76 HDSD (nice snappy name) as it uses similar technology, albeit not battery-equipped and considerably more expensive.

 

The Chord is the best sounding digital source I've ever heard, and I hadn't intended to purchase it, being happy enough with my existing async. USB DAC (a Paul Hynes-equipped dual-mono Buffalo II) and the 555 I'd owned for a number of years. However, after a few days' use it became clear that the Chord was better than either. 

 

I've tried nDAC/555PS, Weiss, and a couple of other likely contenders ( names of which escape me for a moment) in my system, and heard the NDS/555PS on several occasions, but none was as good as the Chord. Maybe the use of a field-programmable gate array device (FPGA) in both Chords is the differentiator here.

 

I'm optimistic that Naim will produce a USB DAC of similar quality, hopefully in one box. Like many other folk I've no use for a NAS based source, having wrestled with these in the past. I much prefer the simplicity of external hard disc storage.

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by hungryhalibut

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Harry:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

What is "the Naim experience"?

It's that constant concern that what you have needs to be even better. 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by analogmusic
The naim experience is what the founder of Naim said "hearing what the people on the recording are doing"
 
I do understand other companies may be able to provide this. 
 
Originally Posted by Harry:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

What is "the Naim experience"?

 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by analogmusic
Not for me, but I do understand what you are saying.
 
I've finally started to enjoy the music now... everything I play sounds enjoyable enough to not care about the next level of upgrades. 
 
 
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Harry:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

What is "the Naim experience"?

It's that constant concern that what you have needs to be even better. 

 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by Harry
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Harry:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

What is "the Naim experience"?

It's that constant concern that what you have needs to be even better. 

Oh, *that* Naim experience

 

Also avoided here but I did go through a spurt of upgraditis for a while with CDPs.

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by cat345
Originally Posted by Jan-Erik Nordoen:
 

Yes, you are way off track. 

 

If you're not interested in any emotional connection with music, then what exactly are listening to music for ? Pretty sounds?

 

 

 

I'v been listening to music all my life so I assume I have some kind of emotional connection with music. This little dac makes a perfect match with Naim amplification and just sound right to my ears. I prefer pretty sound to harsh. Live music is not harsh.

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by Aleg
Originally Posted by cat345:
Live music is not harsh.

you should hear a trumpet live, than you know live instruments can sound harsh.

 

it is a fantasy that live music always sounds nice and beautifull

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by Harry
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
The naim experience is what the founder of Naim said "hearing what the people on the recording are doing"
 
I do understand other companies may be able to provide this. 
 
Originally Posted by Harry:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

What is "the Naim experience"?

 

Missed your post, sorry. OK, I get where you're coming from. For my own part I would disagree with that. Each to our own. I agree with JV's goal and motivation, still espoused to this day but I don't rate all Naim amps particularly highly compared to alternatives, often at lower prices. The "Naim experience" below 252/300 is something I have investigated in depth down the years and always chosen to avoid. But like I said, each to their own.

 

On the other hand, I have unfailingly found a nice crisp, punchy and musical Naim CDP (and the HDX) to match up very nicely to a well executed valve amp. For me, but obviously not everyone, there wasn't a Naim alternative below £10K (new) which either brought more to the enjoyment or changed the presentation so positively that the musical enjoyment became compelling. So I can see that a Sugden might appeal to some. Did I say that it's each to their own?

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by cat345
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by cat345:
Live music is not harsh.

you should hear a trumpet live, than you know live instruments can sound harsh.

 

it is a fantasy that live music always sounds nice and beautifull

Yes, some live instruments can sound harsh if heard from too close. It's not the instrument that sound harsh but when it's sound output approach 120db it start hurting the ear. 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by Hook
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

 

 

 

Originally Posted by Harry:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

the naim experience is incomplete without a naim amplifier. 

What is "the Naim experience"?

It's that constant concern that what you have needs to be even better. 

 

No, that's the "Naim Forum experience".  There is a difference. 

Posted on: 02 May 2014 by analogmusic

Depends what you value in musical reproduction.

 

Other than the highly rated and not made anymore GRAAF GM50, which other amps are you referring to?

 

Those by Cyrus, Roksan, Leema, Primare, Sudgen, or  ?

 

Would be interesting to know which you have compared Naim to and which ones better than at price points below your beloved 252/SCDR/300

 

 


Missed your post, sorry. OK, I get where you're coming from. For my own part I would disagree with that. Each to our own. I agree with JV's goal and motivation, still espoused to this day but I don't rate all Naim amps particularly highly compared to alternatives, often at lower prices. The "Naim experience" below 252/300 is something I have investigated in depth down the years and always chosen to avoid. But like I said, each to their own.

 

On the other hand, I have unfailingly found a nice crisp, punchy and musical Naim CDP (and the HDX) to match up very nicely to a well executed valve amp. For me, but obviously not everyone, there wasn't a Naim alternative below £10K (new) which either brought more to the enjoyment or changed the presentation so positively that the musical enjoyment became compelling. So I can see that a Sugden might appeal to some. Did I say that it's each to their own?