ND555 Impressions
Posted by: Bert Schurink on 26 July 2018
The Beast will arrive and will be installed tomorrow morning in my system. So I thought it was a good moment to open up a thread with the fist experiences, also giving others the possibility to share their first impressions with the beast.
I feeel a bit like a little child who has his birthday tomorrow. I assume that even while it will be nice weather during the weekend that I will be a spending a lot of hours with my system.
And as expected my car will not arrive before the ND555.
Camlan posted:Mike-B posted:Richieroo posted:............. the standby on the ND555 would make quite a difference to the system power draw.........
I'm not sure how much the ND555 standby & deep sleep modes actually save, it would be interesting to have better info on this from Naim. I can understand how its possible to shut down the various ND555 internal systems, but the 555PS provides its power & that has no standby abilities & will still continue to draw quiescent current.
The NDX2, ND5xs2 & all the new Uniti's do have real standby & deep sleep ability as they have a small SMPS inside specifically for that purpose.
So you are going to spend the best part of £20k on an ND555 and a 555DR PS and you are worried about the power cost of leaving it permanently switched on. Really?
Reminds me of when I owned a JCW Mini. Someone asked on a Mini forum how to drive it more economically. Hmmmm.....
Camlan, I assume you are addressing that remark to Richieroo or that its a general observation. If its addressed to me, you are way off beam, I've no intention of buying a ND555 (at the moment at least) but I agree 100% with your posts rational. That said, Naim need to comply with power consumption regulations, hence the SMPS's in other new Naim units .
The standby looks very handy if it will quieten any electronic noise from the ND555 while I’m using the superline that sits on the shelf above it.
We are all supposed to act responsibly and minimise use of energy...
And as for money, there is a saying “look after the pennies, and the pounds look after themselves”. Meanwhile for one do not see a contradiction between buying expensive kit and wanting to minimise running costs - a buyer could have scrimped and saved for years (saving thise pennies), rather than being flush with money as some assume, or someone could be splashing out to get the best kit they can just before retirement and life on a tight budget.
Harry posted:Our audition will be with two 555PS-DR.
I'm told by someone who should know that the step-up with two 555PSs is marked so I think a lot of us will be very interested to hear about your impressions, Harry.
M
Mike-B posted:Camlan, I assume you are addressing that remark to Richieroo or that its a general observation. If its addressed to me, you are way off beam, I've no intention of buying a ND555 (at the moment at least) but I agree 100% with your posts rational. That said, Naim need to comply with power consumption regulations, hence the SMPS's in other new Naim units .
Mike. not addressed to anybody in particular so a general observation I guess. I just cannot take this sort of discussion seriously. You do not have to be relatively flush with money to keep Naim kit switched on all of the time, you surely do to buy an ND555 and 555PS.
Reference 2 x 555ps...I am not sure we got a really straight answer from Jason@Naim when I saw a recent demo, he said that some felt it sounded harsher.....or he could have been talking about the NDS. Either way I did not come away with the feeling that it was such a huge upgrade.
Perhaps on that one off special for Roy George@Naim....it sets off fireworks for the listener?
Should a second 55PS be used, it can be a mixture of DR and non DR, all non DR, as well as all DR. The sound quality will probably differ but the head unit will work.
Gazza posted:Reference 2 x 555ps...I am not sure we got a really straight answer from Jason@Naim when I saw a recent demo, he said that some felt it sounded harsher.....or he could have been talking about the NDS. Either way I did not come away with the feeling that it was such a huge upgrade.
Perhaps on that one off special for Roy George@Naim....it sets off fireworks for the listener?
Gazza
On an NDS it is certainly not a huge upgrade, for me it was an 'itch' I needed to scratch and whilst there is, to my ears, an upgrade in SQ, it is not night and day. Indeed, for me, the upgrade to ND555 would be less financially daunting if I traded in one of my 555 DR PS and went back to one. I'm not going to do it for now because I would be losing money on the PS and would probably regret it in the future. We shall see as they say.
No one said a wonky ND555 sounded any good, but then again they didn’t say it sounded wrong either. The shop’s ND only arrived this morning so judgement is reserved there. They had mine last week and it stayed in its box untill Saturday when it was installed, failed to power up, was taken back to check on a 555DR and returnrd an hour later, it now sits in my rack, transit screws still in place waiting for it’s single ps to return.
So impressions in the middle of an longer listening session again, yesterday the system was not used due to concert of Ed Sheeran. So I belief a bit more controlled now, with some piano notes I still have the idea that’s sometimes a bit on the too edgy side, but I belief like I have seen before in burn in of other devices that that will settle itself. The tonality is more rounded, complete, sometimes very much giving a benefit to solo piano music. I still keep the same impression on authority accross all styles. It’s there presented without a doubt and with slam if needed. The microdetail is much more there without sounding to much Hifi. And especially on sounds with echo, like sometimes drums it sounds more natural. This typical Hifi type of people might not like the signature as it’s very much present and very much puts you in the middle of the action.
So I could even imagine that there will be people would like the level of detail soundstage etc, but would like the sound to be more laid back......
Even now listening to the Cologne Concert of Jarrett and on the NDS it had a sugarcoating quality refined and focus on the angel aspect of the tonality. Now with the ND555 it sounds more like a real piano. I hope you guys will understand my description, as it’s difficult to describe sound impressions.....
Thanks Bert, you are very generous using your time to share these impressions with us.
And to my earlier post, yes you can also hear it’s not the best piano. For those not knowing the story, please find the wiki text below...
The Köln concert
The concert was organized by 17-year-old Vera Brandes, then Germany’s youngest concert promoter.[8] At Jarrett's request, Brandes had selected a Bösendorfer 290 Imperialconcert grand piano for the performance. However, there was some confusion by the opera house staff and instead they found another Bösendorfer piano backstage – a much smaller baby grand – and, assuming it was the one requested, placed it on the stage. Unfortunately, the error was discovered too late for the correct Bösendorfer to be delivered to the venue in time for the evening's concert. The piano they had was intended for rehearsals only and was in poor condition and required several hours of tuning and adjusting to make it playable.[9]The instrument was tinny and thin in the upper registers and weak in the bass register, and the pedals did not work properly. Consequently, Jarrett often used ostinatos and rolling left-hand rhythmic figures during his Köln performance to give the effect of stronger bass notes, and concentrated his playing in the middle portion of the keyboard. ECM Records producer Manfred Eicher later said: "Probably [Jarrett] played it the way he did because it was not a good piano. Because he could not fall in love with the sound of it, he found another way to get the most out of it."[10]
Jarrett arrived at the opera house late in the afternoon and tired after an exhausting long drive from Zürich, Switzerland, where he had performed a few days earlier. He had not slept well in several nights and was in pain from back problems and had to wear a brace. After trying out the substandard piano and learning a replacement instrument was not available, Jarrett nearly refused to play and Brandes had to convince him to perform as the concert was scheduled to begin in just a few hours.[7] The concert took place at the unusually late hour of 23:30, following an earlier opera performance. This late-night time slot was the only one the administration would make available to Brandes for a jazz concert – the first ever at the Köln Opera House. The show was completely sold out and the venue was filled to capacity with over 1,400 people at a ticket price of 4 DM ($1.72). Despite the obstacles, Jarrett's performance was enthusiastically received by the audience and the subsequent recording was acclaimed by critics. It remains his most popular recording and continues to sell well, decades after its initial release.
The performance was recorded by ECM Records engineer Martin Wieland, using a pair of Neumann U 67 vacuum-tube powered condenser microphones and a Telefunken M-5 portable tape machine. The recording is in three parts: lasting about 26 minutes, 34 minutes and 7 minutes respectively. As it was originally programmed for vinyl LP, the second part was split into sections labelled "IIa" and "IIb". The third part, labelled "IIc", was actually the final piece, a separate encore.
A notable aspect of the concert was Jarrett's ability to produce very extensive improvised material over a vamp of one or two chords for prolonged periods of time. For instance, in Part I, he spends almost 12 minutes vamping over the chords Am7 (A minor 7) to G major, sometimes in a slow, rubato feel, and other times in a bluesy, gospel rock feel. For about the last 6 minutes of Part I, he vamps over an A major theme. Roughly the first 8 minutes of Part II A is a vamp over a D major groove with a repeated bass vamp in the left hand, and in Part IIb, Jarrett improvises over an F# minor vamp for about the first 6 minutes.
Subsequent to the release of The Köln Concert, Jarrett was asked by pianists, musicologistsand others, to publish the music. For years he resisted such requests since, as he said, the music played was improvised "on a certain night and should go as quickly as it comes."[11]In 1990, Jarrett finally agreed to publish an authorized transcription but with the recommendation that every pianist intending to play the piece should use the recording itself as the final word. A transcription for classical guitar has also been published by Manuel Barrueco. The first interpretation of the transcription was recorded by the Polish pianist Tomasz Trzcinski and published on the 2CD Album Blue Mountains in 2006.
Camlan posted:Gazza posted:Reference 2 x 555ps...I am not sure we got a really straight answer from Jason@Naim when I saw a recent demo, he said that some felt it sounded harsher.....or he could have been talking about the NDS. Either way I did not come away with the feeling that it was such a huge upgrade.
Perhaps on that one off special for Roy George@Naim....it sets off fireworks for the listener?
Gazza
On an NDS it is certainly not a huge upgrade, for me it was an 'itch' I needed to scratch and whilst there is, to my ears, an upgrade in SQ, it is not night and day. Indeed, for me, the upgrade to ND555 would be less financially daunting if I traded in one of my 555 DR PS and went back to one. I'm not going to do it for now because I would be losing money on the PS and would probably regret it in the future. We shall see as they say.
In your scenario it might be interesting to ask for a home demo and test how much the 2nd ps contributes. With the NDS I remember the 2nd ps made it more real in tonality and soundstage. For the ND555 it might well push it accross the boundaries and make it too edgy for bad recordings. But I guess at some point in time somebody in the forum will test it and write about the impressions.
Innocent Bystander posted:We are all supposed to act responsibly and minimise use of energy...
And as for money, there is a saying “look after the pennies, and the pounds look after themselves”. Meanwhile for one do not see a contradiction between buying expensive kit and wanting to minimise running costs - a buyer could have scrimped and saved for years (saving thise pennies), rather than being flush with money as some assume, or someone could be splashing out to get the best kit they can just before retirement and life on a tight budget.
perhaps he was eating only spaghettis and living in the dark in order to save for an nd555....
Thanks Bert
i have already got an ND555 on order so I think I will wait and see how it settles into my current system. When I said that I felt that the second 555 ps was not night and day on the NDS that was on initial listening so it does not have the upfront impact of say a 552. It may be that going back to one PS will now be a very retrograde step but once I have the ND555 integrated into the system I will give it a try. I can always sell the second ps at a later date if needs be.
Thanks for the update Bert.
Thank you Bert for your time in feeding back your ongoing impressions of the ND555. Very interesting stuff.
Thanks too for the background to the Keith Jarrett Koln Concert. It does explain the slightly edgy and thin feel to parts of this album. It is so interesting to hear about the trials and tribulations as well as the triumphs. Personally I like the Koln Concert very much, possibly as it is a little more 'accessible' than some of KJ's stuff. Possibly he had to play it this way being somewhat restricted due to the problems with the piano.
common bert little bit Tidal and Rip music comparison...
My hope that Tidal streaming will be par with NAS streaming
This time Tidal is not an add on and the platform is designed with Tidal in mind as well
Emre posted:common bert little bit Tidal and Rip music comparison...
My hope that Tidal streaming will be par with NAS streaming
This time Tidal is not an add on and the platform is designed with Tidal in mind as well
Will have a comparison on that in the weekend. But honestly I can’t belief that Tidal is on par with stuff coming directly from my Melco....., but k let’s not have an opinion and test it over the weekend.
Regarding power
Crispy posted:Camlan posted:Mike-B posted:Richieroo posted:............. the standby on the ND555 would make quite a difference to the system power draw.........
I'm not sure how much the ND555 standby & deep sleep modes actually save, it would be interesting to have better info on this from Naim. I can understand how its possible to shut down the various ND555 internal systems, but the 555PS provides its power & that has no standby abilities & will still continue to draw quiescent current.
The NDX2, ND5xs2 & all the new Uniti's do have real standby & deep sleep ability as they have a small SMPS inside specifically for that purpose.
So you are going to spend the best part of £20k on an ND555 and a 555DR PS and you are worried about the power cost of leaving it permanently switched on. Really?
Reminds me of when I owned a JCW Mini. Someone asked on a Mini forum how to drive it more economically. Hmmmm.....
Ha ha no of course....I am not trying to make savings on elec to justify the ND555!!!!.... No what pisses me off with the NDS is it runs quite hot...which I think stresses the components...the ND555 with its standby appears to negate this....
Harry posted:Our audition will be with two 555PS-DR.
I assume it’s the same ND555 that Iain’s bringing round to me on Friday afternoon. However, I’ve just decided not to try two 555PS units - I was going to try my NDS with two 555PS to see how it compared to ND555 with one. But then I realised that it would make more sense to upgrade the streamer, which with trade in wouldn’t cost that much more than a new 555PS. Then there’s always scope to add another power supply to the streamer at a later date 
Bert is it possible - to switch the colour display off when the ND555 is playing???
Clive B posted:Harry posted:Our audition will be with two 555PS-DR.
I assume it’s the same ND555 that Iain’s bringing round to me on Friday afternoon. However, I’ve just decided not to try two 555PS units - I was going to try my NDS with two 555PS to see how it compared to ND555 with one. But then I realised that it would make more sense to upgrade the streamer, which with trade in wouldn’t cost that much more than a new 555PS. Then there’s always scope to add another power supply to the streamer at a later date
Ian is collecting it first thing Friday, so it sounds right for your expected delivery. He wanted us to have it for three evenings but we couldn't accommodate it. Of all the days we couldn't be here.....
Personally, I wouldn't be adding additional components, so that I can compare the ND555 to what I know well. Otherwise it gets complicated. Or at least it would for me. I found a second 555PS to be a significant NDS upgrade, well worth the outlay. That can come later if you want it.
The proof of the pudding will come over the weekend. Returning to the original setup usually kills an upgrade or confirms it for us.
Richieroo posted:Bert is it possible - to switch the colour display off when the ND555 is playing???
When some forum members were at Naim recently we were told that the screen really affects sound quality. They then had to do a lot of further work, circuit design just to get back to where they started without a screen. If that extra time and effort could have built on the no screen design, perhaps the ND555 would be much better. Perhaps that is the special ND555 for Roy George.
I have a Nova, yes I can identify the album from the screen, but I already knew this as I selected it from the App. All text on screen is unreadable for me......wish Naim had not bothered and had concentrated on the sound quality imo.