Rugby World Cup

From a Pacific perspective I'd say that Clive Woodward, Martin Johnson etc have behaved damn close to impeccably at this tournament.

Arrogance, no. Confidence and self belief, yes.

ITs the dickhead English media who make the neutral fans dislike England. God knows how you guys put up with them...


red

As long as I can remember England have been boring to watch (Johnny W., Rob Andrew, Dusty Hare... Has there ever been a time when England haven't based their game around having a much better goalkicker than the opposition?)

I think you are patently confusing too issues here. One is the ability to kick goals from penalties, the other is a reliance on a kicking rather than running game. The England team that made the World Cup final in 1991 relied heavily on a solid defence and an attacking game based around trying to kick the ball into touch in the oppositions 22 and win the subsequent line out. We were slated by the Australians for not trying to run the whole length of the pitch passing the ball among the backs, but this was probably more a grudging respect of the fact that our tactics were simple but infuriatingly effective. The England team of that era was boring to watch, but they are a million miles away from the current England team which has a far greater repertoire. Now England are a possession team, we rarely want to kick in attack because it just hands the ball back to the opposition. We may not play the ball as wide as quickly as say the All Blacks, but our multi-phase driving game is a fantastic sight when in full flow. Ironically I would say that England now play like the ABs of old, SA seem to have a game similar to England in the early 90s (kick and hope) and the ABs themselves play more like Australia did in the past.
John

So is it fair to say that most of you guys have given up on England actually winning this thing???

But when it comes to Football I have a long standing deep cultural and emotional connection with with the game so I am anything but neutral and support the England team despite their obvious faults (rarely playing well, never winning anything, presence of Gary Neville, etc). Primarily this is becuase the England side is made up of the players I follow week in week out as much as them being English.

I will, btw, be supporting Scotland on Saturday despite my traditional animosity to the shoulder chipped Scots as the spine of their team -- Christian Dailly and The Deadly Don himself -- are two of West Ham's finest. I may even cheer on the Welsh as long as Robbie Savage is not playing.

Dave -- A passing familiarity with West Ham will disabuse you of the notion that they are boring even if excitement often comes in the form of blowing 3-0 home leads. And as for winning things West Ham have won 2 FA Cups in the last generation and of course won the World Cup in 1966.

Matthew

John,

You obviously have a much deeper understanding of the game than me (to say the least) and wouldn't know a "multi-phased driving game" if it hit me. All I can say is that, as a neutral, the Welsh played much more entertainingly and creatively and with ten times the passion and flair than the English and deserved to win the quarter final even if England were technically mcuh better.

Matthew

So is it fair to say that most of you guys have given up on England actually winning this thing???

No, but I think most of us are realistic about the level we need to reach to beat France and the All Blacks and it is not too hard to extrapolate our performances so far in this tournament to a defeat against either of those teams.

As I have said before, if every team in the tournament played to their full ability then England would come home with the trophy. Up to now however, we have not even remotely approached that level and time is running out fast for us to find the kind of form we have consistently shown in the last 2 years.
John

As I have said before, if every team in the tournament played to their full ability then England would come home with the trophy.
...John Channing


Don't know about that, John. Your belief seems to be that England are definitely the best team in the world but alas are not quite on the boil at the moment which is lucky for the rest of us.

See, that sounds kinda arrogant to me. A little blinkered too

Whatever, good luck to your guys on the weekend.


red

Good on ya Richie !

I'd just like to add that if the All Blacks don't beat Australia this weekend it will be proof positive (IMHO) that the powers of darkness grow ever stronger and may very well end up encasing the world in a magma of boiling puss and blood in preparation for the arrival of Beelzebub, and that definitely won't be good for the game of rugby, though it still be a game of two halves. God rest our souls.

I know John will disagree with me, however I genuinely believe that if all teams play to full potential NZ will still win the Cup

Well at least when I say it I know we have beaten you this year in your own back yard, we didn't play that well and you scored an offside try which was the only reason why the game was even close! Remember that 6 man England scrum on our goal line? I just hope some of those memories are haunting your boys if we both make the final.


There's nothing better than a tournament where everyone left in it thinks they can win. Come on England!
John

C'mon guys, prediction time.

NZ 29 Aus 12.

France 12 Eng 15 (Both sides reduced to 13 men after 70th minute brawl over farming subsidies).

Bruce

If Australia play like they did last weekend it'll be NZ 50 Aus 0. Ah well, at least we're finally about to discover whether coach Jones is a complete dunce or an unappreciated genius.

As for the Wilting Roses...........

Ah well, at least we're finally about to discover whether coach Jones is a complete dunce or an unappreciated genius.

To be honest, I don't think he has the players to build a WC winning team, so ultimately although he will take the flak a semi-final spot is the best Australia can hope for.


As for the Wilting Roses...........

Keep it coming! The French coach says everyone hates us, which is good, if there was ever a team in need of some motivation it is us!
John

Well if the contributions to this thread are anything to go by then the RWC is definatly upon us! LOL

Re the comment about the English being arrogant..
I don't think one should confuse arrogance with consistency - what I mean is if a team is not playing to its potential but still winning (e.g. England losing one game out of the last 24 played) then something is right.
But I do agree they need to increase from third gear to fifth on Sunday in order to beat France... If they don't they will lose...

quote:

---

Originally posted by John Channing:
_I know John will disagree with me, however I genuinely believe that if all teams play to full potential NZ will still win the Cup_

Well at least when _I say it_ I know we have beaten you this year in your own back yard, we didn't play that well and you scored an offside try which was the only reason why the game was even close! Remember that 6 man England scrum on our goal line? I just hope some of those memories are haunting your boys if we both make the final.


There's nothing better than a tournament where everyone left in it thinks they can win. Come on England!
John

---

May the glories of the past bring you some comfort this weekend innit.
Still bangin' on about the 13-15??

SHAPE UP!!!

Oh yeah...predictions..

AB's by 15

France by 8

The golden rule of tournaments is that the semis are always better than the finals and at least one semi is the best game of the tournament. Looking at the four sides for the final the combination that seems most likely to make the final an absolute stinker would be Austrailia Vs France. Austrailia Vs England at least has the potential for such a staggering amount of ill-feeling that it would be compulsory viewing and NZ Vs France is likely to be a feast of Egg Chasing (An omlette?) so these musrt be discounted.

Since we must also find a way for at least one of the semis to be classic I would suggest the following:

-- Austrailia to edge out NZ 13-12 in a bad tempered, penalty strewn encounter with the Aussie's winning kick coming from an obscure rucking infraction that nobody understands ("Chaffing the ballcarrier during breakdown transtition whilst not on your feet" or something).

-- France to beat England 42-38 in the Game of the Tournament as, with England down by 3 tries late in the game, Woodward throws off the shackles and gives Martin Johnson free reign to be the dashing, elegant, expansive player he so obviously is beneath that hulking exterior. England will play some dazzling Rugby and their fans will annoy everyone else in years to come by talking about this as if "the great England side of 2003" had played like this the whole tournament rather than just the last 20 mins.

France 26, Austrailia 6 in the final.

Matthew

PS Who would the NZ contingent support in an Austrailia Vs England final?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:

I will, btw, be supporting Scotland on Saturday despite my traditional animosity to the shoulder chipped Scots as the spine of their team -- Christian Dailly and The Deadly Don himself -- are two of West Ham's finest.

---

The general opinion up here is that it's depressing that we don't have anyone better than Dailly to use in defence (I personally think he's pretty crap) and that despite our problems scoring goals poor old Don is not the answer. I hope he doesn't make the side and I'd even prefer than Stevie Crawford (who I also don't rate) gets a start in front of him. The fact that Don had a good game once for Scotland really can't be enough to make up for his awful recent performances and lack of fitness & pace.

Regards
Steve

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
John,

You obviously have a much deeper understanding of the game than me (to say the least) and wouldn't know a "multi-phased driving game" if it hit me. All I can say is that, as a neutral, the Welsh played much more entertainingly and creatively and with ten times the passion and flair than the English and deserved to win the quarter final even if England were technically mcuh better.

---

While the Welsh played well they really can't expect to kick that badly and still win games. They should have led 17 to nil at half-time (as the penalty England scored from should have been given the other way for an earlier infringement) which would have made it much harder for England to recover in the 2nd half.

Yes the Welsh moved the ball well and scored some nice tries, but that's only part of the game and they gave away far, far too many penalties.

Regards
Steve

Dailly has been in fine form this season although I would agree that he is one of those players who, no matter how well they are playing, you always think is capable of having an absolute stinker. He's also a very competent passer of the ball for which he never seems to get credit -- I've seen him regularly hit 50 yard cross field passes that would have the pundits purring if a more lauded player pulled them off. Maybe its just becuase playing Div 1 is about his level.

The Don's career seems destined to be one of wasted potential and one blighted by almost constant injury. But despite his athletic shortcomings he does have a basic quality and technique that is missing from the majority of Bertie McVogts' alternatives. He's one of the few Scottish players you'd be confident of converting a difficult half chance which is what Scotland might well have to make do with at the weekend. In an ideal world of course you wouldn't want him on from the start (he's often effective at West Ham becuase he's coming off the bench late on when his lack of pace and mobility is less of an issue).

Matthew

If any of the AB fans have got a video camera I want to see you all doing the Haka before the game against the Aussies. Facial tatoos optional.
John

quote:

---

France will beat Englad by at least 15 points

---

Mmm - don't think so.... but hell what do I know!

Australia's performance reminded me of Germany in the football World Cup. Let's hope they lose the final as well.
John

Ah John,
at least we made it to the final (with sometimes decent, admittedly rarely brilliant football - but then, has Germany ever played brilliant football?)!Well, that's not the topic of this thread any way. Perhaps we can discuss this next year during the European Championship in Portugal.
:-)
Cheers
Uwe

Uwe,
Of course I am immensely jealous of Germany's record in the WC. How a team, with such limited ability, can come from a 5-1 home defeat in the play-offs to then make the final is beyond me!
John