1st week with my new system (500-DR, n272, Focal Scala V2 Utopia)

Japtimscarlet posted:

 

Did you mention what the naim gear is standing on??

The rack is a media console from my old system.  It's a wood console - BDI 8177 https://www.bdiusa.com/product...e-width-cabinet-8177

Innocent Bystander posted:

Don’t get disheartened! I mentioned before my own problems in my room. But as I knew the system, the only change being the room, I knew it was the effect of the room. Absolutely no bass at all just where I planned to sit - and moving the speakers didn’t make a lot of difference. The listening position had to change as well, and I ended up completely rearranging  the room - and the missing bass came back!  Annoying, because everything planned for the room layout had to change, but all’s well that ends well, as they say! Once you’ve found where things work right, tweakery can commence, and the time to replace the castors with spikes is when tge bulk of your movements are over (assuming they improve things further).

Thanks...I need the reassurance!  

The Focal speakers came with spikes.  I have been using the castors simply because they are so convenient. My speakers weigh 190 pounds each, and are massive.  If I were to guess, they are too big for the room. But, lots of work to do with the room itself, I do believe.  My room is 17 feet wide x 20 feet deep x 8 feet tall. 

Bart posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Regardless it is a mullet or not, the first thing is to get the bass right. REW was already given as an advice.

Casters won't work to get a honest representation of the bass - at least that was my experience on my Ovators. Spikes and good floor protectors are much better to experiment with - as said by others too.

Maybe you need a sub to get deep bass in the smallish room.

With those speakers and their 11 inch woofer? A sub would be the last thing I'd think he needs!

 

EXACTLY! I have no intentions, or desire, to buy a sub.

JeredH posted:

Bart posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

Regardless it is a mullet or not, the first thing is to get the bass right. REW was already given as an advice.

Casters won't work to get a honest representation of the bass - at least that was my experience on my Ovators. Spikes and good floor protectors are much better to experiment with - as said by others too.

Maybe you need a sub to get deep bass in the smallish room.

With those speakers and their 11 inch woofer? A sub would be the last thing I'd think he needs!

 

EXACTLY! I have no intentions, or desire, to buy a sub.

I would not be so sure about that. There are folks of this parish using subs on even the biggest loudspeakers to get them sound right.

Edit: a little clarification: sometimes loudspeaker positioning is difficult and sound waves are cancelled by the room / position. A sub in these cases might bring the solution. Personally, I'm not fan of subs but sometimes it simply is the trick.

Ardbeg10y posted:

...

Edit: a little clarification: sometimes loudspeaker positioning is difficult and sound waves are cancelled by the room / position. A sub in these cases might bring the solution. Personally, I'm not fan of subs but sometimes it simply is the trick.

That's exactly the position I have.  Using REW to set-up the crossover to a sub and to tailor the sub's output to the room acoustics made the job a lot easier and made the result a lot better.

JeredH posted:

...

I figure I will buy a microphone and get a REW reading. 
...

When you have the reading I'll probably be able to help you interpret them.

It's also well worth using REW's 'Room Simulation' dialogue to explore the best theoretical candidate positions for your speakers and your listening position.  These can be used as good approximate starting points and then you can make adjustments from there to fine tune the system response to suit the room.

You have a more then adequate Room, so be re-assured the room can be sorted quite easily....

and it will make a considerable difference to how your system sounds....

tweaking is all part of the process....

Your room isn't "small" by any means.  

I too was out of hi fi for 20-something years, and have been back in, and with Naim, for about 7 years now.  I've read and read, but there is no substitute for first-hand experience.  I've bought and sold a bit of Naim gear in those 7 years; one part pure upgrading and one part learning what I like and don't like. And my views change . . . and sometimes it's just fun to experience things (if they are in the budget).  At least with Naim hardware, when you buy used you can sell it off at rather little loss.  I take it that you're here in the States, as am I.  There's not nearly the market here that there is in the UK and EU, but there's still A market.

I've always felt comfortable buying Naim hardware without an in-home audition, but speakers are tougher. I've got the new speaker itch now, but am so far holding steadfast to the 'if I can't do an in-home demo, even if I have to pay shipping, I'm not buying.'  I know that those are expensive speakers, but with the 555PS, better anchoring of the speakers to the floor, etc., you probably (hopefully) will get them sorted out just fine.

Yes, 17 by 20 is quite big and they should work fine, with maybe 3ft behind them, firing down the room. This is not meant to sound patronising, but if this is your first taste of high end hifi, you may be expecting loads of bass. What you are after is bass that is very tight and goes deep when required. Some poor setups will have loads of bass all the time, even when it shouldn’t be there. I’m sure that with a 555, a good stand, good setup and maybe a bit of help from a dealer with knowledge of your speakers, you’ll be able to get a very good sound. It would be hugely disappointing if you cannot. 

The 555 will improve things considerably. See how you get on with it. I’m sure it will be fine. Keep us posted...

JeredH posted:

I have not screwed in spikes to the speakers yet, but will do that soon.  My floors are nice hardwood, and would like to protect them from the spikes.  What are some floor protectors you guys recommend?

Today I will look into a calibrated mic and a copy of REW software. At quick glance the miniDSP UMIK-1 is reasonably priced. 

Appreciate all the suggestions here. I can't get rid of this feeling of sickness in my stomach...like I've gone horribly wrong with my investment. At this point I'm living with my decision and will put in work to figure things out.  

I use Herbie Audio labs  "cone/spike decoupling gliders" under my Focal Be 1038be`s.  They replaced Naim Chips.

I like the Herbie product because you can glide the speakers around on hardwood floor without making any marks on the floor.  Soundwise, might prefer the Herbie`s but not sure. Need to check on the website whether the regular or the giant gliders will work for 190 lb speakers. I use the regular gliders - my speakers weight 112 lbs.

Note: from reading your initial post, would suspect position of speakers in your room is playing a role in your lack of bass.  I get good bass with my Focal 1038s-  your Focal should have more bass presence then mine.

david

As well as spikes, another factor to consider is run-in time.  Speakers can take a long time before they loosen up, particularly in the bass.  I seem to remember something like 200 hours running time for the bigger Focals.  As other have said, patience will likely pay dividends here.

Hi,l also think your system is unbalanced,you have a lot of quality items there witch are being let down with maybe lesser quality items,it sounds like you didn’t buy from a quality dealer who would have set it up for you,in my opinion you need a top quality front end NDS no less and a 552 pre amp,l use Focal Scalas three feet from back wall ,l sometimes have a bit to much bass sometimes ( depending on volume) lm sorry mate l know it can be dissopointing,if you can’t get it right ask a good dealer.my dealer took four hours just to install one item two weeks ago,that’s the sought of service you can get.best wishes ,Bob.

hungryhalibut posted:

This is not meant to sound patronising, but if this is your first taste of high end hifi, you may be expecting loads of bass.  

It took me a while to come to understand this. Friends who'd come over to listen would comment that I spent a lot of money and wasn't rattling the windows - something must be wrong.

Hi Jeredh,

Welcome to the forum!

I won't repeat a lot of the good advice above, what I would encourage along with Mike (MDS) is patience. Follow the advice to carefully and gradually position the speakers in conjunction with REW measurements.

Focal speakers are a marmite brand, some love 'em others hate 'em. I think they are superb, BUT they are an open window onto what is driving them, and any issues. In my case it took me eighteen months to get them firing really well, and I was VERY tempted to interface them with the pavement.

There is a lot of fun and learning to be done in getting a system working to its best; and, that will probably help you decide if and what you want to upgrade to in the most cost effective way.

Really looking forward to your posts as you make progress ........and hit the inevitable frustrations.

ATB,

M

A system sounding good out of a box is usually that. Literally a system that can be pulled out of a box - think a ghetto blaster or something.

What you have needs work, a lot of hard work to sound as great as you think it should, and that could mean work on those ears and perception.

Here is my room:

https://imgur.com/gallery/c6KbuhF

Tomight I contacted GIK Acoustics, and will soon try the speakers on spikes

Do the Scala v2s not come with floor protectors in the spike box? The Evos do...

You shouldn't require any toe-in with them, as long as you can get close to an equilateral triangle between them and your seating position you should be fine. 

You certainly have a good foundation in terms of electronics, particularly if you're getting a 555PS. That lines you up nicely to go ND555 and 552 pre-amp down the road.

Firstly how a 272/555/300DR is is the most fantastic system but 272/555/500DR is unbalanced I don't get although personally I would swap the 272/555 for a 252/SCDR of course you would then need a streamer and a dac but these can be very small and inconspicuous.  However lets not throw the baby out with the bath water just yet I'm sure with a little patience and work you will get the sound that you want and should rightly expect,  hi end hifi should be capable of producing the bass you want I have an old Olive Nap 180 driving Dynaudio Contour 3.4s which though not in the same price bracket are still very good speakers almost as big as yours and my system produces lots of bass.

Your room may need some treatment but you look to have done all the right things, big thick curtains, a large rug and lots of things on the walls so you've made a good start although like me it doesn't look as if you have much scope for speaker placement but getting them up on spikes may help as may some isolation platforms.

I see you have lots of vinyl and if you want to really enjoy it you will need a decent deck the Pro-Ject you have is ok but I would be looking at getting something from Rega or even a used Linn LP12 if you buy used you can get a very good LP12 for £1,000 or an RP8 for a little more.  I cannot begin to tell you the difference  a decent record player will make it will make your streamed music sound small and narrow in comparison I have only a Raspberry Pi connected to a Chord 2Qute dac but have owned a Naim ND5XS and also had a home demo with an NDX and neither where anywhere near as good as my LP12.

Anyway good luck I know it is a frustarting hobby at times but all the hard work will pay off and one day you will get the sound you want just don't settle for anything less.

Focal Scalas should come with spikes!

That room looks lovely and spacious to me. When I heard Focal Scalas at Naim, they were much further from the back wall. Can you try them about 3’ away, and pointing virtually straight ahead. Toeing then in as much as you have will give a smaller, less expansive sound. Spikes are really important, and should come in the box. Naim make Fraim Chips to protect your floor, but in the meantime coins will do the job. You really cannot assess the sound with the speakers sitting on those trolleys. Just use then to get the imaging right. Have the speakers firing straight ahead and toe them in just enough to get a stable central image on vocals. When right, you shouldn’t be able to tell exactly where the speakers are - the music should inhabit the room. Keeping doors shut helps a lot. 

JeredH posted:

Here is my room:

https://imgur.com/gallery/c6KbuhF

Tomight I contacted GIK Acoustics, and will soon try the speakers on spikes

Nice especially with the fridge in the same room to keep those all important beers cool.

3’ into the room is a huge incursion HH, particularly if it’s a living room rather than a dedicated listening room - surely no ‘normal’ speaker needs that amount of space?

I note the large opening at one side rear of the room. I have no idea what it will do to the bass, but it undoubtedy will affect it - maybe more playing around with layout needed than with some rooms.

Doors, cupboards, windows: all will have an effect.