SuperLine Loading Thread.

As much as I enjoy having a music server with a lot of music loaded (about 6500 CD's) and a couple of great turntables, I still enjoy my CD555 the most.

At the end of the day, just being able to drop in a disc and push play, still floats my boat more than anything....

I don't have to be a turntable tech or an I.T. guy.

Tonepub,

I found operating CD555 or kps25S now is more *work* than my Sondek as my CD players have an extra step of placing a puck/disc clamp whereas with my record player, I can get to the tune much quicker!

On 4 top systems it was obvious that the correct cart/phono matching is a must. Everything else is a compromise. Some of the best phono stages are fixed for one specific cart. It seems to me like the next step on the SL. Three high end projects (add here air plugs and hiline interconnects) that we have to try alone. The fun goes on.

I don't have a top system but, when the loading locks in to my liking, it's just so much nicer.

A little blurbs from Manley's phonostage which also have a variable loading facility:
"And explore the interesting tonal shifts caused by intentional mild or severe mis-termination of the cartridge. The “right” setting will ultimately depend on the cartridge in use, type of music being heard, other downstream equipment and, most importantly, your personal preference. There will no doubt be moments when a technically “wrong” setting will be musically “right” for a given situation. Do rest assured that, in this instance, a technically wrong setting is completely harmless for all equipment involved."

This pretty much sums up playing around with *plugs*.

Reminds me of the technics equalizer I had many years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank F:
... but maybe soldering the correct values inside is the way to go??

FF

One very important conclusion of this thread! What's wrong with the 'a la prefix' soldering for those who don't want compromises? Naim could offer this as a service.

Nice one Munch,
Guess what have I done with the blue light of the Radikal? Now it sounds noticeably better.

Put some black sticky tape over it?

quote:

Herewith the Shelter specification, I presume that they know the best loadings,

frank - i envy your persistence in this but it's useless, believe me. i am now on my 3rd shelter and all the manual says which comes with the cart is: 100 - 47kohms.

most cartridge maufacturers just give you a vague value. the 100ohms that are mostly mentioned are just a compromise. but then - i have no experience with (top end) dynavectors.
i don't doubt your findings at all.

loadings also depend largely on theo phono stage - as pointed out earlier.

it seems that my 301 just likes Superline naked@8kohms.

(i did notice some differences with the capacity plugs though).

regards
+bf

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
This pretty much sums up playing around with *plugs*.

Hi Kuma,

I think that the resistors job is not so simple.

Our lovely plugs are not for fun - they help the system to decoding correctly the RIAA Curve

If the system decoding incorrectly the RIAA Curve - the problem is in the cartridge loading

Many modern preamps have user adjustable cartridge loading just for this purpose.

But for fun we can steal Emils old technics equalizer.

Best regards,
Lyubo

quote:

Our lovely plugs are not for fun - they help the system to decoding correctly the RIAA Curve

lyobo

the RIAA is different throughout the last 40 years - different records were produced with different RIAA settings over the years.

kind regards
+christian

quote:

Originally posted by blackforest:

quote:

Our lovely plugs are not for fun - they help the system to decoding correctly the RIAA Curve

lyobo

the RIAA is different throughout the last 40 years - different records were produced with different RIAA settings over the years.

kind regards
+christian

I think, the RIAA equalization curve has operated as a de facto global industry standard for the recording and playback of vinyl records since 1954. But if your dominant records are in "different RIAA" combinations of turnover and rolloff frequencies - don't go for Superline!

Best regards,
Lyubo

i have tried the superline and it worked very well with older and newer records - so the basic design (which has a complete RIAA network implemented already) seems to work very well for those.

loading plugs give "subtle" important changes but don't change everything to good or bad - that's just with one cart i tried. so i go with what kuma writes.

why is it so hard to believe that some pickups want to see more than 500 ohms? i find this whole off topic discussion rather ridiculous. i am not arguing that the Akivs and Dynavectors do work very well - this might be the case...

you have made your experiences with some cart/phono stage combinations - i have done the same.

kind regards,
+bf

ps> what about the poster who wrote about his experiences with the SPU? nonsense as well?

quote:

Originally posted by blackforest:

i find this whole off topic discussion rather ridiculous.

Agree!

I will go to change some plugs, before Emil F. and Frank F. pop up to soldering the correct values inside my Superline. After that "No plugs - No fun"

Regards,
Lyubo

frank

alrighty then - am naked already typing this.

regards
+BF

George, it's not about magic. Stu, the difference is not subtle.

Hi, I am finally getting my turntable up and running with the addition of a superline. hiline and supercap. Has anyone had any loading experience with a Benz-micro LP cartridge.

Regards
Richard

quote:

Originally posted by rml:
Hi, I am finally getting my turntable up and running with the addition of a superline. hiline and supercap. Has anyone had any loading experience with a Benz-micro LP cartridge.

Regards
Richard

That was a Prefix K load cartridge so 560+1 or 576+1 would be a good starting point.

Richard, I remember Huwge was using a Benz albeit a different model to yours. I just had a quick look back in the thread and found this post which may help you....... I'm sure there are other posts if you have a look when you get time.

Kind regards,


Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Huwge:
After much experimentation with a Benz Micro Glider L, I am currently sitting on the fence between 560R + 1.0nF and 536R either bare or with just 0.476nF. There is considerable variance between these loadings and recordings used. Acoustic jazz seems to favour the 536R whereas more modern electric music seems to like the K load.

The interesting thing is that I used to use a Stageline S with the Glider and the combinations of 476 or 500 R and 5.6nF just sound dull.

576R might be the optimum load but it really is just a bit too tizzy in my very hard room, but there is a sense of the window just being that little more open but regrettably with a digital edge.

Huw

Thanks for your response Julian and Peter at least I have a starting point now. I do have a DV Rua aswell but the Benz is fitted at the moment so I would like to give that a spin first also the Rua loadings have been very well documented.
Regards
Richard

My 2p worth

System: Michell Orbe/SMEV/Lyra Helicon/ Superline/Burndy/Supercap/Hiline4-5...thence to preamp

I have played around with the loading for some time now:

1. Always come back to 1nF capacitance
2. Have tried quite a few resistances

500 Ohms ..OK.. a bit stodgy

560 Ohms better, though still lacks "air"

573 Ohms Better.....could live with this

670 Ohms...the soundstage opens up, though balance becomes a little bright. Great seoperation and 3-D effect though....very involving....proably the most musical so far with my system/room

Interestingly, when I was linking the Scap & suoerline with a 5-5 snaic,(before I aquired the burndy) I preferred the 560/573 Ohms...the 670 Ohm lacked "solidity and "punch"....since putting in the burndy.......the 670 Ohms is preferable .....I might try something halfway between 670 and 573......I make up the loading plugs using high tolerance metal film resistors from Maplin(15p each) and Preh DIN plugs available from Farnell for about £2.50 (RS have whacked up the price of these recently)

laurie

quote:

Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:
My 2p worth

I make up the loading plugs using high tolerance metal film resistors from Maplin(15p each) and Preh DIN plugs available from Farnell for about £2.50 (RS have whacked up the price of these recently)

laurie

Hi laurie,

Sonic differences between resistors are certainly audible. Go for Riken Ohm carbon resistors , alternative Takman Carbon Film resistors (3.oo GBP for pair). Other popular resistors are Shinkoh tantalum - regarded as the best in the world (approximately GBP 3.00 to GBP 8.00 each). NO metal film or foil type resistors!

Here is solution about loading - 3M TexTool® ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) Socket, originally designed for the semiconductor industry. Very convenient, no soldering required, and one can try any loading value one wants.

Best regards,
Luybo

Hi

yes I still live near Tonbridge (Near Canterbury actually)

I am aware that the resistors I am using are not top notch. But as an initial experiment to home in on the correct value they do the job fine. In a few months when I am sure that the system is no longer changing due to " burn in" I will then construct a few using top quality resistors


I am following the advice of Mr Steve Hopkins at Naim...


What I find so astonishing is that for over 10 years I used a K Prefix /Supercap..this of course being fixed at 560 Ohms....and now I can hear very distinct changes by making alterations of around a few percent (eg 560 to 573 = circa 2.3 % !!!)

Great fun!

PS the superline really came to life just by replacing the 5-5 snaic from the supercap with the burndy!


My only tweak now is to consider the arm lead.....
laurie

Stu

Sure........give me a ring 01843 593958 Please note that withheld numbers are blocked...

laurie

Stu, did you receive my mails?