Naim DAC – a dealers initial perpective
Posted by: Rodborough on 20 December 2009
Having now had the new Naim DAC for almost two weeks I thought I would share some initial thoughts on something that is for me at least still very much a work in progress, it is a shame that the release has been delayed causing it’s appearance at one of the busiest times for dealers even in normal circumstances and this combined with the immanent increase in VAT to 17.5% next month has exacerbated this situation somewhat.
After allowing a few hours for the new DAC to acclimatise, always a danger of condensation when new equipment arrives in this extremely cold weather, but this gave me time to assemble all the necessary paraphernalia, just as well we had the Naim DC1 in all three versions RCA – RCA, RCA – BNC & BNC – BNC, also to hand was the CD5XS (BNC digital out), CDX2/2 (BNC digital out), HDX (RCA digital out), Linn Sneaky & Majik DS, Apple iPod, iPhone & MacBook, some Naim Powerline’s & HiLine’s and XPS2 & CD555PS.
It seemed a good idea to start off with the CD5XS, into the DAC using the Naim DC1 (BNC – BNC), it has to be said that the sound was pretty aggressive, not unlike the old CDX on acid, common with brand new Naim that is neither burnt in, run in or warmed up, but after only a few minutes it begun to improve/calm down but I could not resist a quick comparison between CD5XS & CDX2/2 and was not totally surprised that there was not much between them at this point, I thought perhaps at the very least an overnight with music running through it might provide a better opportunity to make some more meaningful comparisons.
The next day the Naim DAC was transformed but I decided to begin with a straight comparison of CD5XS versus CDX2/2, using standard mains cables & interconnects, these are after all the best 5 series and CDX variants to date and both performed extremely well through our reference system with the CDX2/2 being the clear winner, although on a personal note I do find that the CDX2/2 can tilt a little in the direction of a slightly forward presentation to achieve higher levels of detail.
Via the Naim DC1 (BNC – BNC) the new DAC was added to the CD5XS the improvement was breathtaking it brought out all of the detail whilst preserving the CD5XS units very musical sound and was a clear winner over the CDX2/2, to be fair to the CDX2/2 it does cost a little more CD5XS/DAC £3700.00, CDX2/2 £3,250.00 (VAT @ 15%), but in my view the best £450.00 extra it would be possible to invest, given the many other benefits the DAC is going to bring to future system development.
The next obvious step was to connect the DAC to the CDX2/2 once again a breathtaking improvement and slightly better than the CD5XS/DAC, in this configuration the CDX2/2 with DAC comes out at £5,200.00, £1,500.00 more than the CD5XS, not quite enough to add an XPS2 but certainly enough to add a HiLine and a Powerline to the DAC bringing the CD5XS/DAC/PowerLine/HiLine combination to £4,650.00 against the CDX2/2/DAC at £5,200.00 and now the CD5XS was the clear winner, and of course these benefits (adding HiLine & PowerLine) are shared by any other source components now running through the DAC.
Naturally the next step was to connect the CDX2/2 to the now slightly upgraded DAC and once again the CDX2/2 stamped its authority as the slightly superior combination, adding the PowerLine & HiLine to the DAC raisers the price stakes of this combination to £6,150.00 so my next experiment was to remove the PowerLine & HiLine and add an XPS2 to the CD5XS/DAC combination this being just £400.00 more at £6,550.00 and once again the CD5XS/DAC/XPS2 combination was the clear winner over the CDX2/2/DAC/Powerline/HiLine combination at £6,150.00 and a trend was beginning to emerge. Whilst in standalone operation the CDX2/2 is a superior CD player to the CD5XS the introduction into the mix of the Naim DAC has a levelling affect even though the CDX2/2 always comes out slightly ahead, that £1,500.00 price advantage that the CD5XS has though, if carefully invested in upgrades to the DAC, brings about advantages not only to the replay of CDs but of course to any other source components utilising the Naim DAC, I concluded my experiments through the following combinations:
CDX2/2/DAC/XPS2 (£8,050.00) versus CD5XS/DAC/XPS2/PowerLine/HiLine (£7,500.00)
CDX2/2/DAC/XPS2/PowerLine/HiLine (£9,000.00) versus CD5XS/DAC/CD555PS [PowerLine included]/S-XPS Burndy (£8,945.00)
CDX2/2/DAC/CD555PS [PowerLine included]/S-XPS Burndy (£10,445.00) versus CD5XS/DAC/CD555PS [PowerLine included]/S-XPS Burndy, HiLine (£9,500.00)
Up until this point the CD5XS combinations were often less expensive and yet superior, of course usually the XPS2 & CD555PS power supplies in former pre DAC days were upgrades available only to the CDX variants and would place them into a much higher league than any of the 5 series CD players adding the DAC however now makes these upgrades available to the CD5XS as well.
Having now taken the CD5XS to its current highest level of potential upgrades all that was now left to do was to connect the CDX2/2 to the fully upgraded DAC and the edge that the CDX2/2 had enjoyed throughout made it the best possible combination coming in at £11,000.00 over the CD5XS at £9,500.00.
I have gone back to this when time has permitted over the past couple of weeks and although the DAC continues to improve it has no affect upon the above results.
A reshuffle of the demonstrations rooms here has now taken the DAC off the reference system and into our mid to high-end room so that work could continue by introducing the NaimUnity, HDX/DAC, Linn DS/DAC, even iPod & MacBook/DAC into the equation and I will write more on that later in the thread.
I hope that’s helpful anyway
Warmest regards
Norman
Partner - UHES
After allowing a few hours for the new DAC to acclimatise, always a danger of condensation when new equipment arrives in this extremely cold weather, but this gave me time to assemble all the necessary paraphernalia, just as well we had the Naim DC1 in all three versions RCA – RCA, RCA – BNC & BNC – BNC, also to hand was the CD5XS (BNC digital out), CDX2/2 (BNC digital out), HDX (RCA digital out), Linn Sneaky & Majik DS, Apple iPod, iPhone & MacBook, some Naim Powerline’s & HiLine’s and XPS2 & CD555PS.
It seemed a good idea to start off with the CD5XS, into the DAC using the Naim DC1 (BNC – BNC), it has to be said that the sound was pretty aggressive, not unlike the old CDX on acid, common with brand new Naim that is neither burnt in, run in or warmed up, but after only a few minutes it begun to improve/calm down but I could not resist a quick comparison between CD5XS & CDX2/2 and was not totally surprised that there was not much between them at this point, I thought perhaps at the very least an overnight with music running through it might provide a better opportunity to make some more meaningful comparisons.
The next day the Naim DAC was transformed but I decided to begin with a straight comparison of CD5XS versus CDX2/2, using standard mains cables & interconnects, these are after all the best 5 series and CDX variants to date and both performed extremely well through our reference system with the CDX2/2 being the clear winner, although on a personal note I do find that the CDX2/2 can tilt a little in the direction of a slightly forward presentation to achieve higher levels of detail.
Via the Naim DC1 (BNC – BNC) the new DAC was added to the CD5XS the improvement was breathtaking it brought out all of the detail whilst preserving the CD5XS units very musical sound and was a clear winner over the CDX2/2, to be fair to the CDX2/2 it does cost a little more CD5XS/DAC £3700.00, CDX2/2 £3,250.00 (VAT @ 15%), but in my view the best £450.00 extra it would be possible to invest, given the many other benefits the DAC is going to bring to future system development.
The next obvious step was to connect the DAC to the CDX2/2 once again a breathtaking improvement and slightly better than the CD5XS/DAC, in this configuration the CDX2/2 with DAC comes out at £5,200.00, £1,500.00 more than the CD5XS, not quite enough to add an XPS2 but certainly enough to add a HiLine and a Powerline to the DAC bringing the CD5XS/DAC/PowerLine/HiLine combination to £4,650.00 against the CDX2/2/DAC at £5,200.00 and now the CD5XS was the clear winner, and of course these benefits (adding HiLine & PowerLine) are shared by any other source components now running through the DAC.
Naturally the next step was to connect the CDX2/2 to the now slightly upgraded DAC and once again the CDX2/2 stamped its authority as the slightly superior combination, adding the PowerLine & HiLine to the DAC raisers the price stakes of this combination to £6,150.00 so my next experiment was to remove the PowerLine & HiLine and add an XPS2 to the CD5XS/DAC combination this being just £400.00 more at £6,550.00 and once again the CD5XS/DAC/XPS2 combination was the clear winner over the CDX2/2/DAC/Powerline/HiLine combination at £6,150.00 and a trend was beginning to emerge. Whilst in standalone operation the CDX2/2 is a superior CD player to the CD5XS the introduction into the mix of the Naim DAC has a levelling affect even though the CDX2/2 always comes out slightly ahead, that £1,500.00 price advantage that the CD5XS has though, if carefully invested in upgrades to the DAC, brings about advantages not only to the replay of CDs but of course to any other source components utilising the Naim DAC, I concluded my experiments through the following combinations:
CDX2/2/DAC/XPS2 (£8,050.00) versus CD5XS/DAC/XPS2/PowerLine/HiLine (£7,500.00)
CDX2/2/DAC/XPS2/PowerLine/HiLine (£9,000.00) versus CD5XS/DAC/CD555PS [PowerLine included]/S-XPS Burndy (£8,945.00)
CDX2/2/DAC/CD555PS [PowerLine included]/S-XPS Burndy (£10,445.00) versus CD5XS/DAC/CD555PS [PowerLine included]/S-XPS Burndy, HiLine (£9,500.00)
Up until this point the CD5XS combinations were often less expensive and yet superior, of course usually the XPS2 & CD555PS power supplies in former pre DAC days were upgrades available only to the CDX variants and would place them into a much higher league than any of the 5 series CD players adding the DAC however now makes these upgrades available to the CD5XS as well.
Having now taken the CD5XS to its current highest level of potential upgrades all that was now left to do was to connect the CDX2/2 to the fully upgraded DAC and the edge that the CDX2/2 had enjoyed throughout made it the best possible combination coming in at £11,000.00 over the CD5XS at £9,500.00.
I have gone back to this when time has permitted over the past couple of weeks and although the DAC continues to improve it has no affect upon the above results.
A reshuffle of the demonstrations rooms here has now taken the DAC off the reference system and into our mid to high-end room so that work could continue by introducing the NaimUnity, HDX/DAC, Linn DS/DAC, even iPod & MacBook/DAC into the equation and I will write more on that later in the thread.
I hope that’s helpful anyway
Warmest regards
Norman
Partner - UHES
quote:Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
LOL! Yes Milo could/should!
Peter
I'm already booked in.
quote:Originally posted by Paul Stephenson:
retailers have to protect themselves and here is not the place for this standing on the fence without looking soppy.
As for the ds in front well no standing on fences here as you can imagine... not in our book. Just like the good ole days
Indeed Paul and again, I'm not sitting on any fences as I have my hands full with vinyl related work.
But the DS Vs DAC stats are honours even! The members need to go and listen for themselves.BTW. Happy Christmas! The S600s have arrived thank you
Pity I have tennis elbow from setting up LP12s and I did my back in over the weekend!
I want a holiday!!!
KR
Peter
quote:Pity I have tennis elbow from setting up LP12s and I did my back in over the weekend!
Are the LP12s fighting back now?
Hi Stu
Thought somebody may ask that question
Yes I have tried it with our Mac and it was very, very good. Was it better than the L***y? And is it worth paying the extra for the DAC? In my opinion, yes on both counts.
Of course it also offers the usual upgrade options and I have to say here, that with a 555PS it is absolutely stunning!
For anyone with an HDX and 555PS, I recommend trying the DAC with a 555PS on the end of the HDX - fantastic.
One of my customers who has the HDX/555PS thought that the the PS was an amazing upgrade but was absolutely shocked to the core (pleasantly) when heard the above combination and placed his order immediately. That's the best proof there is.
You have to try the DAC, Stu. Sorry!
Phil, Cymbiosis
Thought somebody may ask that question
Yes I have tried it with our Mac and it was very, very good. Was it better than the L***y? And is it worth paying the extra for the DAC? In my opinion, yes on both counts.
Of course it also offers the usual upgrade options and I have to say here, that with a 555PS it is absolutely stunning!
For anyone with an HDX and 555PS, I recommend trying the DAC with a 555PS on the end of the HDX - fantastic.
One of my customers who has the HDX/555PS thought that the the PS was an amazing upgrade but was absolutely shocked to the core (pleasantly
) when heard the above combination and placed his order immediately. That's the best proof there is.You have to try the DAC, Stu. Sorry!
Phil, Cymbiosis
Stu
If I remember our diary correctly for tomorrow, I'll be lucky if I get time to make a cup of tea, never mind get out!
Merry Christmas
Phil
If I remember our diary correctly for tomorrow, I'll be lucky if I get time to make a cup of tea, never mind get out!
Merry Christmas
Phil
quote:Originally posted by munch:
Phil,
Pop down the road to Argos/Tesco/Currys/Commet tomorrow and get the cheapest Alba or such like CDP and plug it into the DAC and tell us what it sounds like please????
If the hype is right about the clocking ,They should sound stunnnnnnnning.
Stu
Stu
I have done many demos over the past two months with our DAC and that includes connecting the cheapest piece of crap available, a DVD player bought in a suprmarket.
It DAC does make it sound quite good. How good? Well just about OK and no more.
The difference between transports for me has been quite a surprise. I recently did a demo in Barcelona at a dealer, who also imports DCS and Bel Canto, using the CD5XS as a transport with the DAC and a PS555.
One of the clients asked if he could listen with the Bel Canto transport so we did. The difference was obvious, the CD5XS sounded so much better to everyone present.
Unfortunately the dealer would not let us put the DCS Puccini in the mix, pity.
So, there are differences between all transports, and that includes the CDX2 but I have to say the between the CD5XS and CDX2 as transports only, there is not much between them and for the difference in price I would think twice about buying the latter if my budget was limited and I was going on to buy a PS555 or XPS2 in the future.
All in all it is really a fun product to play with, bearing in mind all the combinations and listening to Hi Res music is just fantastic.
Recently at a show in Madrid, Doug Graham let us here a 24 bit/352Khz recording of Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, well the first 10 minutes, and experience was surreal. When Doug first played it I remeber Alan Gibb, of The Chord Company, and I looked at each other and in tandem we asked " What the f*ck is this?"
It was amazing and the DAC delivered it effortlessly.
That is my tuppence worth.
All the best
Gordon
To answer the question:quote:Recently at a show in Madrid, Doug Graham let us hear a 24 bit/352Khz recording of Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, well the first 10 minutes, and experience was surreal. When Doug first played it I remeber Alan Gibb, of The Chord Company, and I looked at each other and in tandem we asked " What the f**k is this?"
The Dark Side of the Moon is the sixth studio album by English progressive rock group Pink Floyd. Released in March 1973, the concept built on the ideas that the band had explored in their live shows and previous recordings, but it lacks the extended instrumental excursions that characterised their work following the departure in 1968 of founding member, principal composer and lyricist, Syd Barrett. The album's themes include conflict, greed ageing and mental illness.
The album was developed as part of a forthcoming tour of live performances, and premièred several months before studio recording began. The new material was further refined during the tour, and was recorded in two sessions in 1972 and 1973 at Abbey Road Studios in London. Pink Floyd used some of the most advanced recording techniques of the time, including multitrack recording and tape loops. Analogue synthesisers were given prominence in several tracks and a series of recorded interviews with staff and band personnel provided the source material for a range of philosophical quotations used throughout. Engineer Alan Parsons was directly responsible for some of the most notable sonic aspects of the album.
I'm surprised you and Alan hadn't heard this music, as it is played at almost every hi-fi show by somebody or other. Piper At The Gates of Dawn is by far The Pink Floyd's best album though.
Merry Christmas, Rotf
PS - Thanks for the write-up
Hi Philquote:Originally posted by Phil Mulvaney:
Hi Rotf
Afraid I can't answer that question just yet as we haven't been able to try all the possible combinations, as the DAC has been tied up in our current customer dems and time is also in short supply at this time of year.
Will definitely get round to some extended listening of other combinations in the new year.
Will keep you posted.
Phil, Cymbiosis
When the weather gets a bit a warmer I'd love to try an alternative transport on the Naim DAC - we are, of course, all hoping for CD555 performance on the cheap
Well it is Christmas
Merry Christmas Rotf
I'm sure Gordon has heard DSOM - he's a hi-fi dealer 
Maybe he was referring to the 24 bit/352Khz version....? I'd certainly like to hear that!
Maybe he was referring to the 24 bit/352Khz version....? I'd certainly like to hear that!
quote:Originally posted by ROTF:To answer the question:quote:Recently at a show in Madrid, Doug Graham let us hear a 24 bit/352Khz recording of Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon, well the first 10 minutes, and experience was surreal. When Doug first played it I remeber Alan Gibb, of The Chord Company, and I looked at each other and in tandem we asked " What the f**k is this?"
The Dark Side of the Moon is the sixth studio album by English progressive rock group Pink Floyd. Released in March 1973, the concept built on the ideas that the band had explored in their live shows and previous recordings, but it lacks the extended instrumental excursions that characterised their work following the departure in 1968 of founding member, principal composer and lyricist, Syd Barrett. The album's themes include conflict, greed ageing and mental illness.
The album was developed as part of a forthcoming tour of live performances, and premièred several months before studio recording began. The new material was further refined during the tour, and was recorded in two sessions in 1972 and 1973 at Abbey Road Studios in London. Pink Floyd used some of the most advanced recording techniques of the time, including multitrack recording and tape loops. Analogue synthesisers were given prominence in several tracks and a series of recorded interviews with staff and band personnel provided the source material for a range of philosophical quotations used throughout. Engineer Alan Parsons was directly responsible for some of the most notable sonic aspects of the album.
I'm surprised you and Alan hadn't heard this music, as it is played at almost every hi-fi show by somebody or other. Piper At The Gates of Dawn is by far The Pink Floyd's best album though.
Merry Christmas, Rotf
PS - Thanks for the write-up
Rotf
We knew what the music was of course, we´re not that stupid or young! What we couldn´t beleive was what we were listening to. All of us were shocked to hear things that just do not apear on CD nor vinyl....really spooky
Gordon
quote:Originally posted by Nero:
I'm sure Gordon has heard DSOM - he's a hi-fi dealer
Maybe he was referring to the 24 bit/352Khz version....? I'd certainly like to hear that!
Correct!
By the way, I am not a dealer. I am the Naim Distributor for Spain & Portugal along with some other great brands that are often mentioned on this Forum.
Regards
Gordon