NDX and Chord Hugo

Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014

I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.

Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.

The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.

Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.

Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.

What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.

After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.

Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.

One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.

While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.

For me this has to be the bargain of the year.

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by Mr Frog

Analoguemusic - I understand why you would not want the Chord Hugo to be better than your Naim V1, but many think it is. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow after you have spent your hard earned cash on a different product but as technology develops it is inevitable. As they say, resistance is futile and there isn't much point trying to criticise a product you haven't actually heard yet. Go and listen to one if you really want to satisfy your curiosity as to whether it is or isn't better than your V1 - or simply be happy with what you already have, wait 12 months and then check out what else is out there. Most likely something even better!

Just a thought

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by Foxman50

Originally Posted by analogmusic:

That was my point also, that Graeme is hearing the hugo through a non naim amp, and isn't listening to the way of presenting music that Naim amps do.

hence, I am not sure how relevant his comments are to this forum

Fortunately there are views about the hugo from others who do have Naim amps.

Originally Posted by KRM:

There is an issue , although not the one Analogue was making. The issue is that people who have non-Naim or partial Naim systems may have different tastes from many Naim owners and also the Hugo may sound different in their systems. It's not big issue because we all have different systems and the Hugo will not sound the same in every setup or room.

Simon's system is more Naim than Graeme's but he prefers the nDAC to the NDS. Steve has a high end Naim rig but hasn't compared his Hugo to the NDS yet (although he has compared the price!). We can always find ways to discount indvidual views (I don't suppose anyone here has bought an Achromat on my recommedation), but there are too many people raving about the Hugo for it to dismissed lightly, especially for the likes of me who haven't heard the flippin' thing.

Keith

Analog

I think you have a very valid point to some degree. It could well have been that Hugo in my system sounds great, yet through a Naim amp may be too forward or laid back.

However this will only be know if others try the Hugo and see how it sounds. And in this respect i believe my comments are completely valid.

As is always the case with HiFi kit you need to try it out in your own system to know it works well.

Many Naim amp users have stated that they have missed a level of power amp upgrade as it hasn't given them what they want. If you can't judge that this will work then there is no chance you can judge if Hugo will.

Graeme

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by Steve J

Your too f'ing polite Graeme. You're giving him the same platitudes with no effect. His argument completely falls down if you take his argument to another extreme. One could also say you won't get the full Naim sound and therefore can't comment unless you also use Naim speakers in an all Naim set up and he doesn't. Just ignore the little troll. I've now blocked him.

Steve

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by hafler3o

Originally Posted by Steve J:

One could also say you won't get the full Naim sound and therefore can't comment unless you also use Naim speakers in an all Naim set up and he doesn't.

My thoughts exactly. I have no Naim label CDs or downloads, didn't rip using Naims system, music is not stored in a box with a Naim logo on it, no Naim ethernet cables, no Naim speakers and not listening in a Naim demo room! But my system is a Naim 'All-in-One' with no 3rd party DSPing.

Pick bones from that!

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by cvrle

How about the air between speakers and ears...LoL.

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by james n

Originally Posted by hafler3o:

Originally Posted by Steve J:

One could also say you won't get the full Naim sound and therefore can't comment unless you also use Naim speakers in an all Naim set up and he doesn't.

Pick bones from that!

Good God man. How could you possibly have a valid opinion

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by hafler3o

Originally Posted by Wat:

How do you get the Naim sound?

By using a Naim mug 'cupped' over one ear, the good ear

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by HiFiman

Hugo finally up and running thanks to Mark Grant cables as my existing digital RCA plug would not fit the Hugo, Jesus it's tight

Mark lives a couple of miles away from me, emailed him last night about 10 ish, picked up a BNC to Phono cable today, great service.

Hugo out the box is astonishing it makes red book rips sound high res how is this possible?

This has to be the best I have digital in my system at any point during my HiFi travels.

The weather is great outside but I am in the house going over old tunes, wonderful

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by hafler3o

Originally Posted by HiFiman:

Hugo out the box is astonishing it makes red book rips sound high res how is this possible?

Two words, "Naim amp", do keep up!

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by Aleg

Originally Posted by HiFiman:

...

Hugo out the box is astonishing it makes red book rips sound high res how is this possible?

This has to be the best I have digital in my system at any point during my HiFi travels.

There are three things that play a role with this very positive effect. These are in order of importance:

1. Timing

2. Timing

3. Timing

cheers

aleg

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by HiFiman

I agree

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by Foxman50

Originally Posted by Aleg:

Originally Posted by HiFiman:

...

Hugo out the box is astonishing it makes red book rips sound high res how is this possible?

This has to be the best I have digital in my system at any point during my HiFi travels.

There are three things that play a role with this very positive effect. These are in order of importance:

1. Timing

2. Timing

3. Timing

cheers

aleg

Can i get that with my Sugden??? What not even the first one.

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by HiFiman

Originally Posted by Foxman50:

Originally Posted by Aleg:

Originally Posted by HiFiman:

...

Hugo out the box is astonishing it makes red book rips sound high res how is this possible?

This has to be the best I have digital in my system at any point during my HiFi travels.

There are three things that play a role with this very positive effect. These are in order of importance:

1. Timing

2. Timing

3. Timing

cheers

aleg

Can i get that with my Sugden??? What not even the first one.

You need a Naim amp

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

And I think the FIR reconstruction filter having a larger number of kernel samples (taps) than common elsewhere and having a low DSP noise floor helps as well.

Simon

Posted on: 05 July 2014 by Foxman50

Originally Posted by HiFiman:

Hugo finally up and running thanks to Mark Grant cables as my existing digital RCA plug would not fit the Hugo, Jesus it's tight

Mark lives a couple of miles away from me, emailed him last night about 10 ish, picked up a BNC to Phono cable today, great service.

Hugo out the box is astonishing it makes red book rips sound high res how is this possible?

This has to be the best I have digital in my system at any point during my HiFi travels.

The weather is great outside but I am in the house going over old tunes, wonderful

If you like it now wait till its run in. All things come come to those who wait, well Hugo does at least

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic

I see the Naim loyalists are now considered the Trolls on the forum.

This is a load of crap and bollocks and shows how badly this forum has deteriorated.

If Naim loses sales because of random people who don't have any passion for Naim then this is not considered trolling?

I think Steve and company haven't got the faintest idea what the true purpose of the forum is, and in fact the forum and Naim are way too polite tolerating the likes of these here.

If showing loyalty and passion to Naim is being a Troll, then I wonder what is the right word for some bloke like Steve?

My thoughts : Mediocre thinker and disrespectful amateur.

Looking at the last few posts - I propose it's time to lock the thread and stop this completely stupid discussion praising the Hugo as if it's the answer to 30 IPS analog tape.

Originally Posted by Steve J:

Steve

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by hungryhalibut

I'm a troll, you're a troll, you're blocked, he took my lolly. What is this, Year 4? Can't you all play nicely?

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic

simple :

Praising non naim products and losing sales for naim = OK

Defending Naim = Troll

What a completely stupid way of thinking.

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by osprey

Naim loses sales only if they can't provide competitive products. Trolling, bashing or any other type of writings in these forums hardly have any significant effect on their financials.

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by hafler3o

Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

I'm a troll, you're a troll, you're blocked, he took my lolly. What is this, Year 4? Can't you all play nicely?

The intent is now to 'flame' the thread in order to get it removed. Naim does not need to go down the road of forums such as Harbeth, which suppress healthy debate AT SOURCE. I hear the Bass guitar sounds good through Harbeth's which is a relief!

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Mr Frog

This thread is supposed to be about the audible benefits of using Chord Hugo and those who have contributed have provided excellent information to assist others in their strive to achieving better sound quality from their system - whether it be purely Naim, a little bit Naim or totally non Naim components ... Who cares as long as it sounds brilliant.

Then along come the doubting Thomas's who just want to pick an argument for the sake of it.

Does the phrase 'get a life' mean anything?

Perhaps these individuals are simply bored and have no life to speak of, so that's how they seek their enjoyment by just posting rubbish.

This Hugo thread has some excellent content and for that reason should remain, but perhaps delete the rubbish which provides no constructive contribution to improving sound quality.

There ... I'm off my soap box now

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by KRM

It's a forum for discussion, not pulpit. Therefore, people are entitled to test the arguments. The problem here is that we've got hung up silly argument. I don't agree with Analogue, but neither do I expect him to accept being called a troll.

Keith

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Hmack

Analoguemusic wrote:

"I have already solved my "analog" dac problem by using software DSP and 99 % of the time my turntable is lying there unused. In fact I only use to compare to my DSP/DAC V1 combo and the combo is very much equal to the turntable in 99 % of the cases musically speaking".

Analogue music,

This is getting really daft.

You criticise others for not exclusively using Naim kit and for not embracing the 'Naim sound' by using and recommending a 3rd party DAC. Then you quite blandly state that the sound you get from your Naim DAC is so bad that you have to obliterate it by using a DPS software.

In other words, you are not a Naim devotee at all! The sound you listen to is not 'Naim'. It's whatever you have configured the DSP software to do.

So your challenge quoted below is not really what you mean:

"So the Hugo would have to completely and massively trounce my DAC V1 in terms of bass articulation"

What you really mean is that the Hugo through your DSP has to trounce the DAC V1 through your DSP. Not even remotely relevant to this debate.

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

@Analogmusic the moderators, both official and unofficial (neither of which I believe are Naim employees) have said multiple times recently, and I think in part in response to you, non Naim devices can be discussed within the forum rules. The only request is that the discussion is respectful to all parties including to the hosts (Naim). There is a vast amount of non Naim product discussed on this forum, and it it makes it the interesting place it is.

This thread was and is occasionally discussing the experiences of connecting a Naim NDX to the Chord Electronics Hugo DAC. The fact that the people participating may have Naim amps, speakers, Hugo, NDX or combinations thereof etc is all interesting but surely in terms of system performance and sound.

So please leave the thread to those who can add to it and/or enjoy it.

it will stop when we have had enough, which I suspect we are getting close to, but it doesn't need you to pop up every so often antagonising those participating in this thread saying the thread needs to be locked... just ignore it and start your own separate threads if you want, please. Don't you see your actions are probably perpetuating the thread???

Simon

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Mr Frog

Simon has echoed my thoughts much more articulately