NDX and Chord Hugo

Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014

I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.

 

Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.

 

The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.

 

Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.

 

Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.

 

What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.

 

After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.

 

Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.

 

One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.

 

While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.

 

For me this has to be the bargain of the year.

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by KRM:

It's a forum for discussion, not pulpit. Therefore, people are entitled to test the arguments. The problem here is that we've got hung up silly argument. I don't agree with Analogue, but neither do I expect him to accept being called a troll.

 

Keith

I agree Keith, I'm not happy with calling Analog a troll, however as many have pointed out he is constantly putting up the same arguments only to be shot down. So I'm not sure what other word can be used for this type of attitude. I don't believe him to be the Naim devotee he insists he is for reasonsI I've  stated before.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
I see the Naim loyalists are now considered the Trolls on the forum.
 
This is a load of crap and bollocks and shows how badly this forum has deteriorated.
 
If Naim loses sales because of random people who don't have any passion for Naim then this is not considered trolling?
 
I think Steve and company haven't got the faintest idea what the true purpose of the forum is, and in fact the forum and Naim are way too polite tolerating the likes of these here.
 
If showing loyalty and passion to Naim is being a Troll, then I wonder what is the right word for some bloke like Steve?
 
My thoughts : Mediocre thinker and disrespectful amateur.
 
Looking at the last few posts - I propose it's time to lock the thread and stop this completely stupid discussion praising the Hugo as if it's the answer to 30 IPS analog tape.
 
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Steve J:

Your too f'ing polite Graeme. You're giving him the same platitudes with no effect. His argument completely falls down if you take his argument to another extreme. One could also say you won't get the full Naim sound and therefore can't comment unless you also use Naim speakers in an all Naim set up and he doesn't. Just ignore the little troll. I've now blocked him. 

 

Steve

 

 

In the real world, we acknowledge that there are many very, very good pieces of hi fi equipment available, irrespective of type or make. It's there in front of you. The difference comes as soon as you put down some money on a piece of kit. Most people buy Naim kit just for the purpose of listening to music, and not to score points off non-Naim users. 

 

The argumentation on this thread has been a very basic one, viz : "My Naim equipment makes me happy, but my Chord Hugo makes me even happier." That's all I can see the gist of the argument being, from my point of view..that and "if you haven't tried the Hugo how do you know it won't make you happier than your Naim does?". I particularly like the incomphrensible technical jargon.

+1

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

@Analogmusic  the moderators, both official and unofficial (neither of which I believe are Naim employees)  have said multiple times recently, and I think in part in response to you, non Naim devices can be discussed within  the forum rules. The only request is that the discussion is respectful  to all parties including to the hosts (Naim). There is a vast amount of non Naim product discussed on this forum, and it it makes it the interesting place it is.

 

This thread was and is occasionally discussing the experiences   of connecting a Naim NDX to the Chord Electronics Hugo DAC. The fact that the people participating may have Naim amps, speakers, Hugo, NDX or combinations thereof etc is all interesting but surely in terms of system performance and sound.

 

So please leave the thread to those who can add to it and/or enjoy it.

 

it will stop when we have had enough, which I suspect we are getting close to, but it doesn't need you to pop up every so often antagonising those participating in this thread saying the thread needs to be locked...  just ignore it and start your own separate threads if you want, please.

 

Simon

Well said Simon

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Pauleb
nalogmusic used the phrase "a load of cr-p and bo--ocks" about others valid, open minded views, but clearly the phrase couldn't be any more accurate about his own posts!  
 
 
Yes analogmusic lets "lock the thread" as it doesn't agree with you and once again your already battered toy's are forcibly thrown on the floor in public. 
 
The usual arogance and disrespect the forum has sadly become accustomed too.
 
The forum would be a better place without you and many who sit and watch quietly would then be able to post without fear of your arrogant bile. 
  
 
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
I see the Naim loyalists are now considered the Trolls on the forum.
 
This is a load of crap and bollocks and shows how badly this forum has deteriorated.
 
If Naim loses sales because of random people who don't have any passion for Naim then this is not considered trolling?
 
I think Steve and company haven't got the faintest idea what the true purpose of the forum is, and in fact the forum and Naim are way too polite tolerating the likes of these here.
 
If showing loyalty and passion to Naim is being a Troll, then I wonder what is the right word for some bloke like Steve?
 
My thoughts : Mediocre thinker and disrespectful amateur.
 
Looking at the last few posts - I propose it's time to lock the thread and stop this completely stupid discussion praising the Hugo as if it's the answer to 30 IPS analog tape.
 
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Steve J:

Your too f'ing polite Graeme. You're giving him the same platitudes with no effect. His argument completely falls down if you take his argument to another extreme. One could also say you won't get the full Naim sound and therefore can't comment unless you also use Naim speakers in an all Naim set up and he doesn't. Just ignore the little troll. I've now blocked him. 

 

Steve

 

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic

Paulbarrow and steve J again talking nonsense, crap and rubbish.

 

I fully accept that the Hugo is a nice enough machine, but the obsessive way the machine is being hyped on on the forum is a bit much. 

 

I don't accept being called a troll if my purpose is to remind all not to take the piss out of the courtesy of the host of the forum

 

Competition is healthy and we can all look forward to a new generation of DAC's sometime soon.

 

I may even purchase a Hugo someday, but I am sensible enough to post once or twice about the DAC on the Naim forum, and maybe go elsewhere on other forums to say what a nice product it is.

 

Going on and on about it endlessly is a bit too much on this forum.


Anyway that's my view, and just as you are all entitled to yours, I am entitled to mine

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by james n
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

Paulbarrow and steve J again talking nonsense, crap and rubbish.

 

I fully accept that the Hugo is a nice enough machine, but the obsessive way the machine is being hyped on on the forum is a bit much. 

 

I don't accept being called a troll if my purpose is to remind all not to take the piss out of the courtesy of the host of the forum

 

Competition is healthy and we can all look forward to a new generation of DAC's sometime soon.

 

Pot and kettle here. The Hugo's an interesting product and this place would be a tad boring if only Naim was allowed to be mentioned. 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by tonym

If none of us bothered to reply to the troll, he'd probably shut up. Like he promised to do in a previous post.

 

Although I've got no intention to swap my current Chord DAC for the Hugo, I'd be intrigued to do a comparison in my system. Someone I know's already done this & reckons mine just has the edge but it'd be interesting to try in my own system. If any Hugo owner wants to give this a try (Simon?) I'd be happy to see them.

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by nbpf
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

I fully accept that the Hugo is a nice enough machine, but the obsessive way the machine is being hyped on on the forum is a bit much.

Maybe you are right but, as I was about to write in a parallel thread, this is not compulsory reading, is it ?

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic
as I said earlier, the state of the forum has now really become mediocre thanks for posts like this one below.
 
Tonym is entitled to his view that is Chord DAC is better than Naim CD555, but that doesn't make posts from people like him as factual.
 
I promised to keep quiet on any further negative comments on the Hugo, but doesn't mean you have the liberty to call me a Troll.
 
Now you are saying the hugo which has 26000 taps is less better than YOUR Dac, based on someone else view.

What a confusion. Did you not get the hype? Rob watts clearly said the Hugo with 26000 taps was chords most advanced DAC, so how could your DAC be better than the hugo.
 
It's all about the taps, it's only about the taps, 
 
It can't be about the battery because my Iphone has one too, but nobody says the battery in the Iphone can replace the XPS, now can it.

this whole battery in the Hugo is better than XPS  so ridiculous.
 
But not the taps, because that's where all the hidden music is hiding for all Naimees to go and discover all over again.
 
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by tonym:

If none of us bothered to reply to the troll, he'd probably shut up. Like he promised to do in a previous post.

 

Although I've got no intention to swap my current Chord DAC for the Hugo, I'd be intrigued to do a comparison in my system. Someone I know's already done this & reckons mine just has the edge but it'd be interesting to try in my own system. If any Hugo owner wants to give this a try (Simon?) I'd be happy to see them.

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
as I said earlier, the state of the forum has now really become mediocre thanks for posts like this one below.
 
Tonym is entitled to his view that is Chord DAC is better than Naim CD555, but that doesn't make posts from people like him as factual.
 
I promised to keep quiet on any further negative comments on the Hugo, but doesn't mean you have the liberty to call me a Troll.
 
Now you are saying the hugo which has 26000 taps is less better than YOUR Dac, based on someone else view.

What a confusion. Did you not get the hype? Rob watts clearly said the Hugo with 26000 taps was chords most advanced DAC, so how could your DAC be better than the hugo.
 
It's all about the taps, it's only about the taps, 
 
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by tonym:

If none of us bothered to reply to the troll, he'd probably shut up. Like he promised to do in a previous post.

 

Although I've got no intention to swap my current Chord DAC for the Hugo, I'd be intrigued to do a comparison in my system. Someone I know's already done this & reckons mine just has the edge but it'd be interesting to try in my own system. If any Hugo owner wants to give this a try (Simon?) I'd be happy to see them.

 

Analog

 

i dont think Tony said this at all. He has mentioned another's comments, yet unlike you he wants to make up his own mind by listening in his own system. What a shame you wont do the same.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by KRM

Agreed Graeme, but there is a Confusion here. Apparently, Rob Watts has described the Hugo as Chord's best DAC, but he charges a lot more for the QBD76 HDSD and describes it as his flagship DAC on his website :-/

 

Keith

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by rupert

Hi it's what the individual  likes what counts you all twist the sound to suit your selves,I record off my su onto a sony top end mds that as a very good dac in it I can also edit lovely sound,Each to his own regards.

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by rupert:

Hi it's what the individual  likes what counts you all twist the sound to suit your selves,I record off my su onto a sony top end mds that as a very good dac in it I can also edit lovely sound,Each to his own regards.

Rupert

 

isn't this the whole point. No one can say this is better than that, its what you prefer as an individual. 

 

Graeme

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by KRM:

Agreed Graeme, but there is a Confusion here. Apparently, Rob Watts has described the Hugo as Chord's best DAC, but he charges a lot more for the QBD76 HDSD and describes it as his flagship DAC on his website :-/

 

Keith

Keith 

 

i don't see the issue. Chord can hardly say heres out top of the range expensive dac but it doesn't sound as good as our entry level cheap one, can they 

 

Graeme

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by KRM

So if Naim bring out the NDX2 on Monday without a price change and tell us it's their best ever streamer you don't think that might prompt some forum comment? 

 

Keith

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic
I have voted for Naim with my hard earned money.
 
I have purchased a 202/200 then NAPSC, then HCDR and now DAC V1.
 
 
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by KRM:

It's a forum for discussion, not pulpit. Therefore, people are entitled to test the arguments. The problem here is that we've got hung up silly argument. I don't agree with Analogue, but neither do I expect him to accept being called a troll.

 

Keith

I agree Keith, I'm not happy with calling Analog a troll, however as many have pointed out he is constantly putting up the same arguments only to be shot down. So I'm not sure what other word can be used for this type of attitude. I don't believe him to be the Naim devotee he insists he is for reasonsI I've  stated before.

 

Graeme

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by gary yeowell
Heard the Hugo yesterday for the first time, and in a very revealing system. My overriding feeling is that what goes in front of it is as important as the Dac itself. I heard it firstly with an Arcam streamer, then a Mac, then Qute, and lastly an NDS555x2. The difference each time was not subtle and the final iteration was sublime. Strangely i'd have a problem living with the Mac combo which sounded hard and etched by comparison to the streamers. We also played a standalone CDX2.2 in there to get a benchmark.

I think the Hugo is extremely capable, but it does hi light differences at the front end and as much as people think it does not matter what its fed, i'm afraid to these ears it very much does. Of course the extra money required for the best scenario may be questionable in the context of a lesser system than i was hearing it with, and i can imagine something like an ND5 or NDX being a nice compromise for most people.
Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic
Of course not. You're twisting my words to justify the Hugo.
 
I also use the Naim DAC V1 bare and it sounds amazingly good on movies, TV and concert blu-ray.
 
I use DSP on red book CD, and that's a personal preference. 
 
However using USB input for Red book CD into DAC V1 gives an exceedingly good sound quality bare, without DSP
 
With DSP and without DSP.
 
I will know how to test the Hugo with or without DSP, and of course I will judge the Hugo without DSP.
 
The Hugo without DSP will have to massively trounce the DAC V1 to justify the amount of hype built of up here.
 
I don't think the Hugo is a bad machine, but is it really such a game changing, life altering DAC?
 
Not even the best rigs from DCS can lay claim to this.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Hmack:

Analoguemusic wrote:

 

"I have already solved my "analog" dac problem by using software DSP and 99 % of the time my turntable is lying there unused. In fact I only use to compare to my DSP/DAC V1 combo and the combo is very much equal to the turntable in 99 % of the cases musically speaking".

 

Analogue music,

 

This is getting really daft.

 

You criticise others for not exclusively using Naim kit and for not embracing the 'Naim sound' by using and recommending a 3rd party DAC. Then you quite blandly state that the sound you get from your Naim DAC is so bad that you have to obliterate it by using a DPS software.

 

In other words, you are not a Naim devotee at all! The sound you listen to is not 'Naim'. It's whatever you have configured the DSP software to do.

 

So your challenge quoted below is not really what you mean: 

 

"So the Hugo would have to completely and massively trounce my DAC V1 in terms of bass articulation"

 

What you really mean is that the Hugo through your DSP has to trounce the DAC V1 through your DSP. Not even remotely relevant to this debate.

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Aleg
Originally Posted by gary yeowell:
Heard the Hugo yesterday for the first time, and in a very revealing system. My overriding feeling is that what goes in front of it is as important as the Dac itself. ...

....

Not surprising for me.

I am involved in testing software players during development and each version of the same piece of software (all bit-perfect of course, goes without saying really) can sound hugely different going the same route into the hardware chain.

 

Hugo is certainly not immune to that, but when the rest remains the same, it is the best DAC I heard at the moment.

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by tonym
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:
 Look on the bright side, however the music industry evolves, we will always be guaranteed to be able to listen to Fleetwood Mac's "Rumours" on any format.

Damn. I've only got it on vinyl and CD. God, I feel so cheap...

 

Interesting what you feel about the streamer Gary. I've always been happy streaming from my iMac (I did try my old Mini but it sounded the same to my old ears). Maybe time to give the streamer a try.

 

({edit} but that means I'd have to go the NAS-SPDIF route. And can no longer use the lovely Amarra iRC room correction software. So not so keen in retrospect).

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic
That's not logical
 
According to Rob Watts it is their best ever DAC.
 
but you're saying they can't disclose this on their website?
 
So what if a customer went and paid 4500 GBP for the QBD 76 and the later found out he should have paid 1400 for the Hugo?
 
Graeme, you will have to concede that at least with Naim this doesn't happen.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by KRM:

Agreed Graeme, but there is a Confusion here. Apparently, Rob Watts has described the Hugo as Chord's best DAC, but he charges a lot more for the QBD76 HDSD and describes it as his flagship DAC on his website :-/

 

Keith

Keith 

 

i don't see the issue. Chord can hardly say heres out top of the range expensive dac but it doesn't sound as good as our entry level cheap one, can they 

 

Graeme

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by KRM:

So if Naim bring out the NDX2 on Monday without a price change and tell us it's their best ever streamer you don't think that might prompt some forum comment? 

 

Keith

Keith

 

I don't think you got what i meant. Of course its open for discussion. I was meaning that Chord cant say that Hugo is their best DAC as it means no one would buy their more expensive units. Rob Watts obviously can say this. Same if Naim brought out an NDX2 i doubt they would say its their best DAC, even if it was, as no one would then purchase the NDS at twice the price.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic
Not immune.
 
So it only sounds best with an NDS/555/555 class player.
 
Hmmmm.
 
Nice one.
 
 
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by gary yeowell:
Heard the Hugo yesterday for the first time, and in a very revealing system. My overriding feeling is that what goes in front of it is as important as the Dac itself. ...

....

Not surprising for me.

I am involved in testing software players during development and each version of the same piece of software (all bit-perfect of course, goes without saying really) can sound hugely different going the same route into the hardware chain.

 

Hugo is certainly not immune to that, but when the rest remains the same, it is the best DAC I heard at the moment.

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic
The problem is that it is their best dac.
 
And you are indirectly saying that Chord is now cheating their customers.
 
Tread carefully.
 
You got away with a lot of nonsense on the forum so far, but now this?
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by KRM:

So if Naim bring out the NDX2 on Monday without a price change and tell us it's their best ever streamer you don't think that might prompt some forum comment? 

 

Keith

Keith

 

I don't think you got what i meant. Of course its open for discussion. I was meaning that Chord cant say that Hugo is their best DAC as it means no one would buy their more expensive units. Rob Watts obviously can say this. Same if Naim brought out an NDX2 i doubt they would say its their best DAC, even if it was, as no one would then purchase the NDS at twice the price.

 

Graeme

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by gary yeowell
Tony, i use a Mac Mini at home with the V1 in my office and have been happy with it but i'm using the V1 straight into a power amp and SL2's. Yesterday it was a 552/500/Titan rig and the differences were laid bare. Two things strike me, the V1 must be less resolving and of course the pre power certainly is.