252 or CD555 ?

Phil, the available height under an intermediate level is quoted as 180mm.

Richard Dane posted:

Phil, the available height under an intermediate level is quoted as 180mm.

Thank you Richard. It’s a big shelf at 250mm spacing. Maybe when the a Superline comes I should remove the nDAC, but would the CDX2 powered by the 555 start affecting the Superline below it?

Phil

In your stack I'd be tempted to put the Superline where the DAC is currently positioned and move the DAC to under the CDX2. Superline can be an open window to noise interference, so positioning to minimise outside effects is key - then it's basically silent (and sounds sublime).

Richard Dane posted:

In your stack I'd be tempted to put the Superline where the DAC is currently positioned and move the DAC to under the CDX2. Superline can be an open window to noise interference, so positioning to minimise outside effects is key - then it's basically silent (and sounds sublime).

Richard, So you are saying the Superline does not mind being near the TT and preamp? Rega advise side by side for TT and Aria/Aura with preference of TT on right to maximise distance between MC cartridge and phonostage, but mine are well separated anyhow.

I’ve always assumed that if boxes are not operating that their magnetic fields will be lower. Hence different source boxes together. I could put the nDAC where the CDs are (see photo above).

Phil

Phil, it certainly doesn't mind being close to the Pre-amp.  Not sure about the TT itself, so you'll need to find out.  You could always swap the Pre-amp and Superline around level-wise to see if it's better.  You could also move whatever the powered box is at the bottom of the left stack over to the right and move the CDs.  It'll be worth spending some time to experiment a bit.

That’s a 300 head unit, you don’t want to be moving that. I can’t help thinking that a Fraim and a Rega wall shelf would make much, much more difference than shuffling boxes on that oak rack. 

Ah OK, thanks HH.  Yes, leave that there. 

Indeed, the Rega wall mount for the RP10 would be a great idea if the wall is solid enough to take it. 

Phil, is Fraim a possible option here?

From the published pic, the twin stacks are across a corner with an outside wall to the rhs, and possibly to the left too.

Richard Dane posted:

Ah OK, thanks HH.  Yes, leave that there. 

Indeed, the Rega wall mount for the RP10 would be a great idea if the wall is solid enough to take it. 

Phil, is Fraim a possible option here?

Richard, HH doesn’t like HiFi Racks but with the addition of Fraim glass I think it sounds better than I have heard 552/500 sound at HQ and one Forum member with Fraim. But then HQ was through top Focal Utopias and the forum member had Naim SLs ! There are others that feel that Fraim glass is what deals with the vibration problem. I have a beautiful room filling sound.

We are only having this exchange because Richard suggested nDAC above preamp is not his favourite position. I am always looking to improve what I have through setup, but ....If there was a top end reference system at HQ customers would be able tell what represents the ultimate.

It would be difficult to put the TT on the wall.

I’d welcome a visit from anyone to hear my system or for me to hear theirs.

Phil

Filipe posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Ah OK, thanks HH.  Yes, leave that there. 

Indeed, the Rega wall mount for the RP10 would be a great idea if the wall is solid enough to take it. 

Phil, is Fraim a possible option here?

Richard, HH doesn’t like HiFi Racks but with the addition of Fraim glass I think it sounds better than I have heard 552/500 sound at HQ and one Forum member with Fraim. But then HQ was through top Focal Utopias and the forum member had Naim SLs ! There are others that feel that Fraim glass is what deals with the vibration problem. I have a beautiful room filling sound.

We are only having this exchange because Richard suggested nDAC above preamp is not his favourite position. I am always looking to improve what I have through setup, but ....If there was a top end reference system at HQ customers would be able tell what represents the ultimate.

It would be difficult to put the TT on the wall.

I’d welcome a visit from anyone to hear my system or for me to hear theirs.

Phil

Earlier this year I changed my rack to full fraim .... I took quite a while deciding if it would be worth the expense.....

I certainly was not disappointed.... for whatever reason full fraim just seems to work extremely well...

it just really allows the black boxes to give optimum performance

the only down side is the cost....

Hi Wenger, You are welcome to visit me with some CDs and take a listen. I’m near Gloucester, not that far from you. I am sure Fraim is good, but I would need there to be a good reason to change when I’m being blown away by the music. 

P.S. I have a 252.

Phil

Filipe posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Ah OK, thanks HH.  Yes, leave that there. 

Indeed, the Rega wall mount for the RP10 would be a great idea if the wall is solid enough to take it. 

Phil, is Fraim a possible option here?

Richard, HH doesn’t like HiFi Racks but with the addition of Fraim glass I think it sounds better than I have heard 552/500 sound at HQ and one Forum member with Fraim. But then HQ was through top Focal Utopias and the forum member had Naim SLs ! There are others that feel that Fraim glass is what deals with the vibration problem. I have a beautiful room filling sound.

We are only having this exchange because Richard suggested nDAC above preamp is not his favourite position. I am always looking to improve what I have through setup, but ....If there was a top end reference system at HQ customers would be able tell what represents the ultimate.

It would be difficult to put the TT on the wall.

I’d welcome a visit from anyone to hear my system or for me to hear theirs.

Phil

Phil, I’m sure your Podium Reference is a lot better than the Podium Slimline I used once, which was useful only as firewood. It gave a horrible leaden sound, just awful. I only mentioned the Fraim because I recently got a used one to replace the already very fine Quadraspire SVT and the difference was very significant. It just made everything a lot more musically satisfying. I’d sort of forgotten how good it is - I’ve had one before, about 12 years ago, but sold it when I downsized. It only cost me £200 to do the upgrade, but of course with more boxes it’s a lot of money. I note your offer of visits - I find long journeys difficult, but you’d be most welcome to call in at Emsworth should you fancy it. 

Filipe posted:

Hi Wenger, You are welcome to visit me with some CDs and take a listen. I’m near Gloucester, not that far from you. I am sure Fraim is good, but I would need there to be a good reason to change when I’m being blown away by the music. 

P.S. I have a 252.

Phil

Thanks for your kind offer.... if ever theirs a possibility of heading your way it would be great to meet and hear your system.

As for the fraim.....yes it is extremely good but if you are blown away by how your system sounds as it is, then I would say ‘why change ‘...

There is a lot of truth in that. I was perfectly happy with my Quadraspire but it was a bit big and when I saw a four level Fraim, in the finish that matches my speakers, not too far way from me, I thought ‘why not?’ As it is, I am delighted with the improvement. It looks nicer too, though it’s a pain to dust. For years I swore I’d never have another one. Ah well. 

hungryhalibut posted:

Filipe posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Ah OK, thanks HH.  Yes, leave that there. 

Indeed, the Rega wall mount for the RP10 would be a great idea if the wall is solid enough to take it. 

Phil, is Fraim a possible option here?

Richard, HH doesn’t like HiFi Racks but with the addition of Fraim glass I think it sounds better than I have heard 552/500 sound at HQ and one Forum member with Fraim. But then HQ was through top Focal Utopias and the forum member had Naim SLs ! There are others that feel that Fraim glass is what deals with the vibration problem. I have a beautiful room filling sound.

We are only having this exchange because Richard suggested nDAC above preamp is not his favourite position. I am always looking to improve what I have through setup, but ....If there was a top end reference system at HQ customers would be able tell what represents the ultimate.

It would be difficult to put the TT on the wall.

I’d welcome a visit from anyone to hear my system or for me to hear theirs.

Phil

Phil, I’m sure your Podium Reference is a lot better than the Podium Slimline I used once, which was useful only as firewood. It gave a horrible leaden sound, just awful. I only mentioned the Fraim because I recently got a used one to replace the already very fine Quadraspire SVT and the difference was very significant. It just made everything a lot more musically satisfying. I’d sort of forgotten how good it is - I’ve had one before, about 12 years ago, but sold it when I downsized. It only cost me £200 to do the upgrade, but of course with more boxes it’s a lot of money. I note your offer of visits - I find long journeys difficult, but you’d be most welcome to call in at Emsworth should you fancy it. 

HH, Thank you for your kind offer. As it happens Emsworth is not that far (30 miles) from Winchester where my son lives. We visit weekly on Thursdays.

I do agree with you about the wood on its own, but then the Fraim Lite has wood and can be upgraded. So why not others for about £80/shelf. When I ordered a Uniti 3 years ago I didn’t know where it was all heading! The dealer recommended the stands. It was only through this forum that I started getting the sound I wanted!

Talk of small speaker tweaks recently has been a real revelation.

Phil

hungryhalibut posted:

There is a lot of truth in that. I was perfectly happy with my Quadraspire but it was a bit big and when I saw a four level Fraim, in the finish that matches my speakers, not too far way from me, I thought ‘why not?’ As it is, I am delighted with the improvement. It looks nicer too, though it’s a pain to dust. For years I swore I’d never have another one. Ah well. 

For an extra £200 it’s an extremely cheap change to make.....im not surprised that you are delighted.

I assume it’s the glass shelves an isolation that Naim boxes seem to thrive on 

Filipe posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Ah OK, thanks HH.  Yes, leave that there. 

Indeed, the Rega wall mount for the RP10 would be a great idea if the wall is solid enough to take it. 

Phil, is Fraim a possible option here?

Richard, HH doesn’t like HiFi Racks but with the addition of Fraim glass I think it sounds better than I have heard 552/500 sound at HQ and one Forum member with Fraim. But then HQ was through top Focal Utopias and the forum member had Naim SLs ! There are others that feel that Fraim glass is what deals with the vibration problem. I have a beautiful room filling sound.

We are only having this exchange because Richard suggested nDAC above preamp is not his favourite position. I am always looking to improve what I have through setup, but ....If there was a top end reference system at HQ customers would be able tell what represents the ultimate.

It would be difficult to put the TT on the wall.

I’d welcome a visit from anyone to hear my system or for me to hear theirs.

Phil

SLs?

Phil, if you fancy popping in just let me know. 

Could I put my CDX2 above the 555DR as I only use it for digital output nDAC. Would the digital signal be messed up?

I’ve already moved the TT PS out of the way.

I could then put the nDAC where CDX2 and not have anything near 252 or TT.

Phil

Filipe posted:

Could I put my CDX2 above the 555DR as I only use it for digital output nDAC. Would the digital signal be messed up?

I’ve already moved the TT PS out of the way.

I could then put the nDAC where CDX2 and not have anything near 252 or TT.

Phil

The CDX2.2 as a transport is still a source, Phil, so really deserves a place on the 'brain' rack.  And the CDX2.2 in this form is still sensitive. For example, I found giving it a separate PSU, an XP5XS sited on the 'brawn' rack, gave a good performance lift because the transformer in its back box was then not needed so wasn't interfering with the digital output circuits etc.

As regards the nDAC, my dealer told me that its noise generally radiates upwards so if it is on you brain rack you should probably avoid siting it on the shelf immediately below you pre-amp.    

Like Phil the glass and Naim cups & balls improved things significantly over the wood so I must agree that the glass and balls is probably the key thing.

I’ve moved the 252 to the top shelf in place of the NDS and, already, it sounds more controlled. Interesting.

MDS posted:

Filipe posted:

Could I put my CDX2 above the 555DR as I only use it for digital output nDAC. Would the digital signal be messed up?

I’ve already moved the TT PS out of the way.

I could then put the nDAC where CDX2 and not have anything near 252 or TT.

Phil

The CDX2.2 as a transport is still a source, Phil, so really deserves a place on the 'brain' rack.  And the CDX2.2 in this form is still sensitive. For example, I found giving it a separate PSU, an XP5XS sited on the 'brawn' rack, gave a good performance lift because the transformer in its back box was then not needed so wasn't interfering with the digital output circuits etc.

As regards the nDAC, my dealer told me that its noise generally radiates upwards so if it is on you brain rack you should probably avoid siting it on the shelf immediately below you pre-amp.    

I almost have two brain racks because I have two empty shelves above the 3 power supplies. I have extra space (same as intermediate Fraim) above the 300 head and its PS. I think DB recommenced that, and I thought it worked.

The simplest solution is longer legs (£40 for a set) for the 252 shelf. It has the benefit of keeping grandchildren away from the CDP and TT as they grow!

The other one is an ND555 instead of nDAC and CDX2!

Of course if there was a new 500 series DAC it might not be ND555 as I’m not a fan of the App and my 16GB iPad is bursting the seams after movie making.

If anyone would like to see my pilgrimage movie on iOS then let me know. Best with Apple TV. There might be some arm twisting though!

Phil

Richard Dane posted:

In your stack I'd be tempted to put the Superline where the DAC is currently positioned and move the DAC to under the CDX2. Superline can be an open window to noise interference, so positioning to minimise outside effects is key - then it's basically silent (and sounds sublime).

It seems to me that this is worth trying as there is no power supply in the Superline to mess up the MC cartridge. The Aria has a PS and therefore needs to be as far away from the TT cartridge as possible. 

I have run TT/Aria with nDAC/CDX2 off with no obvious SQ degradation. From what you are saying the Superline is sensitive so I must give it a fair chance when I demo it. 

Phil

After having a chat with my dealer, i have decided to have a dem of the 252, it’s an ideal opportunity with Xmas holidays on the horizon.

It with be interesting to compare with the 282... and also to utilise fully the capabilities of my  Supercap dr once hooked up to the 252.

Enjoy.. you will the 282 and 252 very different.. I did... let the 252 breath with you for a few days.. if things don’t start to expand and become clearer in your mind when listening... you might as well go back to the 282... let us know how you get on...

BTW I adored my 252....